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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 04:14 PM
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Thanks guys I built a soda blaster and have been blasting all the paint off of my car .But it has been raining here and damp for the last month and a half and I noticed a few small spots of surface rust on the car .So I was reading another post where the guy (sorry don't remember who) used navel jelly and steel wool to get rid of some surface rust .Mine is just small spots that will sand right off as they are very light .I was thinking that after I wash the car down I will also go over it with navel jelly and steel wool to git rid of the small rust spots and the acid in the navel jelly would also neutralize any soda that may be missed .
What are your thoughts ?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrot
================================================== ========
Like oldred said, It's better to get rid of it one way or another instead of leaving it there. Cut it out, disslove it with phosphoric acid, or sand it out, but get rid of it if at all possible. Rust is called the cancer of steel. If you had a lump of cancer in your body, I bet you would prefer to have it removed rather than let it stay inside you, taking the chance that it will spread in the future.
I've seen the ads saying that it completely "encapsalates" the rust, preventing it from spreading. But what if it isn't completely "encapsalated"?
How does that movie line go?
"What we have here is a failure to communicate?"
In this case, what we have here is a pocket of rust in hibernation waiting to explode thru your paint.
FYI hydrochloric acid can be used also, and it seems to be quicker.
Check this thread out:rust remover
here we go again........
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:54 PM
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Scrot, I know you mean well but IMO hydrochloric acid is a bit too strong. When using Phosphoric acid (a relatively mild acid) preparations the metal is transformed by chemical action and they leave a Zinc phosphate coating for rust protection. Hydrochloric acid however is much stronger and penetrates deeply into the metal where it starts a different chemical reaction that is hard to stop and it may cause far more damage than the rust it removes. The metal can become very weak and brittle from this reaction and because it eats so deeply into the metal it can be hard to neutralize, just something to think about.
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Old 07-05-2006, 05:25 PM
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I'm tired of your stupid crap......


Post number 25 covers social outcasts.

Post number 30 may be of interest.
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:44 PM
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navel jelly/soda blasting

navel jelly does work good.have you ever tried soda blasting?
I met a guy who builds soda blasting machines and sell them.
I am trying prep a model a and he did a door for me.not a bad job but if the panel is pitted you will have to more aggresive with it.I seen panels that he has donea year or so ago and its look like it was done today!He blasted a buddy of mine's 68 mustang complete car in about three or four hours!the car looked liked it did not ever had paint on it.Though i pass that along if any body needs more info let me know.Later
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:52 PM
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Yes I have most of the paint off of mine now the panels look like the day they were stamped out really cool!But there are other problems with soda that are not great when it comes to painting ...as Barry K pointed out after I had started mine .....isn't that the way
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Old 07-06-2006, 07:27 AM
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Navel jelly does not work well on heavy rusting, that is if you expect instant results. It does however work quite well given ample time and a Little effort (patience is the key here. ) even on heavier rust and it will work quickly on surface rust and almost instantly on flash rust.
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Old 07-06-2006, 09:56 AM
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I've tried Naval Jelly and gave up after I tried muiratic acid. Yes, it smells nasty, will burn your skin if you touch it, and will make metal brittle if you leave it on too long, but it works, and it works well. Just use some common sense.
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Old 07-06-2006, 10:30 AM
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You will damage the metal with muriatic acid (Muriatic acid is Hydrochloric acid, Muriatic is just the old name for it, they are the same thing) even if you only leave it a short time. You are getting the wrong chemical reaction plus it eats too deeply into the metal causing damage that will not be immediately apparent. I just can not believe that some one would intentionally contaminate their car body with hydrochloric acid! I am not a pro body man but I have seen first hand what hydrochloric (muriatic) acid contamination can do even to heavy metal parts and if this worked as good as it at first seems it would be common practice but it is not and for a very good reason, most people simply know better. This stuff will set in motion a chemical reaction that you will not want and that will be very hard to stop! IMHO keep strong acids as far away from your car as possible.
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Old 07-06-2006, 03:55 PM
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Something we can agree on, except "MR. Knowitall"

================================================== ========Hydrocholoric acid or Muriatic acid does work at removing rust.
Just don't leave it on long and neutralize it with baking soda and water and finish it off with the automotive specific phosphoric acid solution.
Pheeww .............that wasn't so hard to understand. I feel better now.

Last edited by scrot; 07-06-2006 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 07-06-2006, 05:45 PM
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Scrot, It will remove rust but at the expense of the metal you treat. Once the Hydrochloric/Muriatic acid contaminates the metal it is not so simple to remove/neutralize and when you consider just how thin the part is you are working with it should be easy to understand why this should not be done. If even a tiny amount reaches an inaccessible area such as a seam you will have major problems sooner rather than later but even open areas will be affected in a very adverse way. Like I said before if this worked as good as it seems then everyone would be, and would have been for years, doing this but they don't because of the problems it will cause. I know some will yell "I do it all the time with no problems" but chemistry works the same for everyone and this will get you in the end. If someone insists on doing this to their car after being warned that's ok but please don't tell someone else to do it because it is a disaster in the making whether you believe it now or not. Hydrochloric acid is nothing new and it has been used for many purposes for far longer than cars have been around and it's properties are well known so don't you even wonder why people have not been doing this all along?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2006, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Scrot, It will remove rust but at the expense of the metal you treat. Once the Hydrochloric/Muriatic acid contaminates the metal it is not so simple to remove/neutralize and when you consider just how thin the part is you are working with it should be easy to understand why this should not be done. If even a tiny amount reaches an inaccessible area such as a seam you will have major problems sooner rather than later but even open areas will be affected in a very adverse way. Like I said before if this worked as good as it seems then everyone would be, and would have been for years, doing this but they don't because of the problems it will cause. I know some will yell "I do it all the time with no problems" but chemistry works the same for everyone and this will get you in the end. If someone insists on doing this to their car after being warned that's ok but please don't tell someone else to do it because it is a disaster in the making whether you believe it now or not. Hydrochloric acid is nothing new and it has been used for many purposes for far longer than cars have been around and it's properties are well known so don't you even wonder why people have not been doing this all along?
Well said.I think scrot just likes posting this kind of stuff to get a rise out of people,and what do you know....it worked.......again.With that said,Im done with this thread,if scrot wants to ruin his sheet metal,and talk everyone else into doing the same to theirs.......well.........whatever.
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Old 07-06-2006, 06:05 PM
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Evil, I guess you are right and the fact is most people already know better anyway, I will hush up now
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Old 07-06-2006, 06:19 PM
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Hopefully, anyone that has been here for any lenght of time will know that Scrot has likely never posted good information on this site. He appears to have come here simply to post bad information, and see if anyone will follow his advise. I have my doubts that he has ever worked on a car.

Aaron
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2006, 07:38 AM
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If you want to see what muratic acid does to sheet metal I can post some pics of a '53 dodge that a guy did 6 years ago. He did the doors,jams and rockers. This was a rust free calf. car. Its not anymore. He rinsed it off and rubbed soda on it and rinsed it again. You can see where it started eating the metal from the seams out. If you want to save time and get your car done go ahead but you will be putting in ten times the labour and money in the long run. There is a use for it just not on body metal. JMO of course. Cheers!!!
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