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Old 07-05-2006, 09:18 AM
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Navel Jelly ?

What is navel jelly I have heard of a couple of references to it for rust removal,but what is it? I'm in Canada so it may be named something else here or probably not available
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Old 07-05-2006, 09:36 AM
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Navel jelly is a close relative of toe jam...
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onovakind67
Navel jelly is a close relative of toe jam...
And toe jam does as good a job at removing rust

Here is a suggestion to remove rust with electrolysis
http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

I have seen pictures of folks cleaning whole frames in this manner.

What are you trying to de rust?
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:16 AM
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Big Dog, Navel jelly is just one of several preparations containing Phosphoric acid to dissolve and remove rust, kinda slow going but with Patience it will work. Navel jelly, and similar products, has been around for many years and is sold at hardware stores, auto parts and most building supplies. For light rusting this works really well but for heavy rust you need to remove as much as possible first then apply the product, give it ample time to work while keeping it from drying out along with wire brushing, this will usually need to be repeated several times. You may find that other methods will work better for your particular case but this stuff is so cheap and simple to use that it certainly deserves a try anyway.
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:27 AM
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It may be simpler (and cheaper) to just treat the rust rather than try to desolve it. Check out products like POR 15 and Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator. These products work well from my experience.

George
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Old 07-05-2006, 11:34 AM
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It is far, FAR! better to remove the rust than to just cover it up! Removing rust is the proper way to do this because if you just cover it up it very well may come back to haunt you and anyway you look at it if you just cover the rust it is still there and you will aways have rusty parts!
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Old 07-05-2006, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
It is far, FAR! better to remove the rust than to just cover it up! Removing rust is the proper way to do this because if you just cover it up it very well may come back to haunt you and anyway you look at it if you just cover the rust it is still there and you will aways have rusty parts!
Out of my experience, there is a time and a place for everything. I've resto'd many cars and in the process, removed rust, removed rusty panels and fabricated new, and I've SEALED and NEUTRALIZED rusty panels, all with great success over the years. The products mentioned above don't just "cover" it up. They chemically react with the rust not unlike gun bluing chemically reacts with gun metal to provide metal protection.

George
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Old 07-05-2006, 12:18 PM
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This has been , and will continue to be, argued both ways but covered up rust is just that covered up! It may be "neutralized", "converted" or "killed", whatever they want to call it, but it is still there and this is nothing more than a band-aid approach. I don't see how anyone can call a repair that leaves rust in place "restored", JMO on that one and others may see it differently but I do not want rust on my car in any form hidden, converted or otherwise and I think few people would disagree that removal is the best way. Even if you do manage to stop the rust from getting worse by using these "cover up" products the rust that was already there is still there and and you will STILL have a rusty car whether you can see the rust or not! This fellow asked about rust removal products which are for the purpose of PERMANENTLY dealing with the rust and will provide for a proper rust free repair and not something that will leave rust there only out of sight.

BTW, ever get a gun barrel wet and forget to dry it? Not very much protection there.
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
This has been , and will continue to be, argued both ways but covered up rust is just that covered up! It may be "neutralized", "converted" or "killed", whatever they want to call it, but it is still there and this is nothing more than a band-aid approach. I don't see how anyone can call a repair that leaves rust in place "restored", JMO on that one and others may see it differently but I do not want rust on my car in any form hidden, converted or otherwise and I think few people would disagree that removal is the best way. Even if you do manage to stop the rust from getting worse by using these "cover up" products the rust that was already there is still there and and you will STILL have a rusty car whether you can see the rust or not! This fellow asked about rust removal products which are for the purpose of PERMANENTLY dealing with the rust and will provide for a proper rust free repair and not something that will leave rust there only out of sight.

BTW, ever get a gun barrel wet and forget to dry it? Not very much protection there.
At the risk of starting a flame war here...I will agree with you that removing rust is the best approach and always will be, but as I said, there is a time and a place for everything. I'm sure that your rides are not Riddler contenders, and I'll bet I will find rust on your rides regardless of how diligent you are at removing it. Rust is inevitable...like age. Sometimes you just have to deal with it.

...and BTW back, I happen to be gun collector too, and bluing is reason your gun doesn't rust in your hand as we are speaking. Why do you think bluing is added to metal in the first place? It isn't for looks...

George
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:53 PM
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Here's one example of naval jelly: Permatex Rust Remover

http://www.permatex.com/products/aut...solver_Gel.htm


It does work extremely well but is very slow, the hood and decklid on My Son's 70 Nova has some serious rust pitting and these panels were my first test using the naval jelly. I applied a thick coating of the stuff then covered it with thin plastic to keep it wet and allowed it to set overnight. The next day the jelly had turned black and I then used a red scotchbrite and scrubbed 75% of the rust loose then added more jelly and let it set for a few hours lightly misting it with water a few times to keep it wet and working. After a few more scubbings the rust had all loosened up and rinsed right off with water. The stuff works, it's cheap, but it's slow.
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Old 07-05-2006, 02:56 PM
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Well im not going to get into the debate with you guys on whos way is better,but,BIG DOG,there is a thread floating around here on this very same subject.I do not know how to post a link,but if you use the search button,and type in Randy Ferguson,you will find all the info you need.He did a indepth write up on this subject.Follow hit instructions to the letter and you will have no problems.If you use it the right way,I WILL WORK!!!!I have some pics of me doing the removal,before and after,and I can post them if you like.Hope that helps!
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:03 PM
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Evil, This the one? To call this an informative article is an understatement, it is excellent info

secrets of surface rust removal revealed
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Big Dog, Navel jelly is just one of several preparations containing Phosphoric acid to dissolve and remove rust
================================================== ========
Like oldred said, It's better to get rid of it one way or another instead of leaving it there. Cut it out, disslove it with phosphoric acid, or sand it out, but get rid of it if at all possible. Rust is called the cancer of steel. If you had a lump of cancer in your body, I bet you would prefer to have it removed rather than let it stay inside you, taking the chance that it will spread in the future.
I've seen the ads saying that it completely "encapsalates" the rust, preventing it from spreading. But what if it isn't completely "encapsalated"?
How does that movie line go?
"What we have here is a failure to communicate?"
In this case, what we have here is a pocket of rust in hibernation waiting to explode thru your paint.
FYI hydrochloric acid can be used also, and it seems to be quicker.
Check this thread out:rust remover
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdubstub
At the risk of starting a flame war here...I will agree with you that removing rust is the best approach and always will be, but as I said, there is a time and a place for everything. I'm sure that your rides are not Riddler contenders, and I'll bet I will find rust on your rides regardless of how diligent you are at removing it. Rust is inevitable...like age. Sometimes you just have to deal with it.

...and BTW back, I happen to be gun collector too, and bluing is reason your gun doesn't rust in your hand as we are speaking. Why do you think bluing is added to metal in the first place? It isn't for looks...

George
Complete removing of the rust with a treatment,of your choice,immediatly afterwards is always the best. Yes, rust will find a way but if you do all you can and do it the right way it will take longer to happen.
Now about the guns. Bluing does not protect the metal of the gun if the gun is not maintained by cleaning and so on,period. If you disagree, I have a couple of guns I could show you.
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Old 07-05-2006, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Evil, This the one? To call this an informative article is an understatement, it is excellent info

secrets of surface rust removal revealed
yep,thats it.That thread is THE ONLY thread about naval jelly that counts IMO.Randy is da man!
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