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Old 10-01-2010, 09:47 AM
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Need fuel line help with an LT1

I'm going to put a 95 Camaro LT1 in my Stude. As I'm cleaning and sealing the old tank, I realize I have no clue what it takes for this engine.
1. What type, brand, size, fuel pump will I need?
2. Location?
3. How many lines?
4. What size lines?
5. Non vented cap?
6. Fuel filter?

The Stude tank has a single outlet, at the bottom.

To an old fart, this stuff is rocket science - so please dumb down your answers. Thanks

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Old 10-01-2010, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldguy829
I'm going to put a 95 Camaro LT1 in my Stude. As I'm cleaning and sealing the old tank, I realize I have no clue what it takes for this engine.
1. What type, brand, size, fuel pump will I need?
2. Location?
3. How many lines?
4. What size lines?
5. Non vented cap?
6. Fuel filter?

The Stude tank has a single outlet, at the bottom.

To an old fart, this stuff is rocket science - so please dumb down your answers. Thanks
Are you bringing the electronic fuel injection or switching to a carb?

Bogie
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Old 10-01-2010, 10:49 AM
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Lt1

Got the whole stock setup and want to run it that way.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:03 PM
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I know little or nothing about EFI, but if this were my project, I might be considering swapping a Camaro tank into the Stude. I'm pretty sure the pump is inside the tank and there may be several lines coming out of the tank. I guess there are inline pumps you can use, but if I were doing it, I would want the whole mess to be OEM stock. I think I would feel better about it that way, knowing that you can just go to any auto parts store and order parts that will fit. I mean, if you are doing an engine swap, you can most certainly be qualified to do a tank swap.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:13 PM
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LT1 fuel lines

techinspector - I agree with your approach, but - The Stude has a very flat tank that is frame mounted, and the camaro tank won't work, no way - no how. Also, I have already modified it to a rear fill (to be hidden behind the license plate) so I can fill in the door on the fender.
Modifying it, with the proper fuel lines, seems the only way to go.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by oldguy829
Got the whole stock setup and want to run it that way.
The Camaro tank will have the necessary pump inside it as well as all the necessary hose connections for pressure to the fuel rails, return from the regulator and connection to the carbon cannister vent system. To modify the Studi tank will be a pretty large exercise which will include the internal addition of surge shields meant to hold fuel around the pump. The pump will fail most quickly if starved momentarily hence the baffles. You could build an external pump system, see my pictogram attached. This requires a low pressure electric pump to feed a surge tank, then an external high pressure EFI pump draws off the surge tank to supply the fuel rails. The return from the regulator can be tapped into the top of the tank or into the filler pipe so long in this latter case as the fuel doesn't spray out the filler cap. I expect that the system will require the vapor cannister vent as this is something the computer is looking for, that means you'll have to convert the Stude's filler cap to a seal-able non-vented type. The fuel pumps used in these earlier systems are dependent upon fuel flow through the pump to cool them, so the return is vital to pump life, pumps in the tank of course are even better off as they can use the entire fuel quantity as a heat sink. Newer systems that don't use a return measure line pressure and cycle the pump rapidly on and off to hold proper pressure, this of course takes sensors and computer programming that are not part of the LT1 system.

Check here for a surge tank http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...Category_Code=



Bogie
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:30 PM
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1. What type, brand, size, fuel pump will I need?
2. Location?
3. How many lines?
4. What size lines?
5. Non vented cap?
6. Fuel filter?

The Stude tank has a single outlet, at the bottom.

You could use a frame mounted pump off of say a ford f 150 from about an 85 or 86 efi. Mount it right back near the tank. This pump is capable of 100 psi.They are a high demand pump so it will pass muster. These pumps like to have a low pressure delivery pump in the tank but being that your tank has a bottom of the tank fitting (did real good with that move ) just mount the high pressure pump back as close to the tank as possible and keep the highest part of the pump(if possible) no higher than the lowest part of the tank.Those pumps are kinda whiny when they dont have good delivery volume from the fuel supply.
You need to get a pump fitting (plastic with the little clip) from a ford fuel line to hook the pump to the car then adapt from there to the GM setup.
You will have to carefully peel the plastic hose from the fuel fitting for the ford pump so as not to nick the barbs.I usually make a radial slice back toward the end of the plastic and then grap it with pliers and peel it around like ripping open a tin can.
Use the fitiing to got to the pump and put EFI approved fuel line on it to get it to your next coupling.I would only use enought to make the change from the pump to a steel line to go to the front.You need to use FUEL injection style clamps.They are the full band style with a nut and bolt not a screw type clamp. You can use oetecker style also. I like to double up on stuff like that for obvious reasons.
You will need a return line from the engine. That will be easier to deal with as the pressure will be almost non existant,unless you are putting an evaporative system on also. ( i recommend you do. will cover that in a few.
You can put the return hose fitting in the filler neck part way down from the top.where you put ut make sure to aim it down torward the tank(bend it at a ninety) and solder it in
You will need to use a vented cap for that.
However i recommend keeping the evaporative system if possible.Unburnt hydrocarbons are unhealthy and just plain nasty.That will take a little more planning . You can at least put you rod together with the setup I have outlined here. As for fuel pressure the stock regulator on the rail will maintain what you need as long as the pump can push it. (that ford pump will no doubt). I hope this makes sense .If I could work and type as fast as I can think it would be scary
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:08 PM
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Keep in mind this would be a quick and OK way to get you fuel system up and running. If it were my hotrod(sounds nice) I would have a custom tank made at some point and incorporate an evaporative system in it as well.
The fuel evaporating in the garage is a nuisance and a health hazard and fumes can be explosive.
A custom tank would be cooler , nicer looking , safer and would be a whole lot better than the tank you are running.It would allow you to hide the fuel pump as well .
As someone mentioned you should baffle it to channel fuel to prvent starvation. Some return lines ( a lot actually) dump the return fuel right on top of the sock for the fuel pump also to hepl keep the baffle area from depletion when the tank is low.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldguy829
Modifying it, with the proper fuel lines, seems the only way to go.
X2 or a custom polished aluminum
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:29 PM
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LT1 fuel lines

I'm beginning to understand the problem.
The diagram of the external setup is what I was looking for, but now realize I don't have room under there for 2 pumps, surge tank, etc.

How about some schooling; what other cars would have a setup that will work with the LT1? Maybe I can find a flat tank that would fit.

This has been very helpful guys. I knew I needed an electric fuel pump, but was expecting something like 15 PSI. How much pressure does the LT1 require?
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:34 PM
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Lt1 needs 41 - 47 at engine idle speed

Last edited by latech; 10-01-2010 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:43 PM
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[QUOTE=oldguy829]I'm beginning to understand the problem.
The diagram of the external setup is what I was looking for, but now realize I don't have room under there for 2 pumps, surge tank, etc.

How about some schooling; what other cars would have a setup that will work with the LT1? Maybe I can find a flat tank that would fit.

This has been very helpful guys. I knew I needed an electric fuel pump, but was expecting something like 15 PSI. How much pressure does the LT1 require?[/QUOTE

Older B bodys (caprices) 85-88 or in that area have a flat tank with a filler nech in the liscence plate. They are set up for efi also. Just would need to put a mpfi pump (41-47 psi) in place of the tbi (11-13 psi) pump.the pump should be an easy swap.If the tank fits
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Old 10-02-2010, 11:37 AM
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lt1 fuel system

Thanks latech, very helpful. Here's what I have.
The stude frame rails are very narrow - 38 inches apart. Caprice tank, 39 inches wide.
Actually, the stude tank is 33x30x6 1/2. Just enough room to get dual exhausts past the tank. Older camaro tanks are 33x23, but 11 inches deep.
Dodge diplomat seems closest - 35 3/8 x 29 1/2 x 7.
So, wide tanks interfere with exhausts, deep tanks hang too low (both visible and impractical, cause the car is going down). I'm back to modifying the stude tank.
Can you point me at cars that would have the proper lines, and MPFI pumps that would work? I could concentrate on just the depth issue and modify the opening to accept that setup. [the gauge would be a completely different issue - but I think I can deal with that]
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:23 PM
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Maybe a late 80's G body? cutlass monte carlo,grand prix (RWD) they should be a little narrower.My 87 monte had the fuel neck behind the liscence plate I believe(gosh i think but it has been a while since I had that car)
Not sure how deep and my 87 was a 305 4bbl but there were a lot of 86,87 + 88 LS monte carlos that were 4.3 efi (tbi) that would be a good prospect as the electric pump is on the sender. My 87 carbed had a mechanical pump on the engine
You would still have to change the pump to the higher pressure MPFI pump
but the return setup and the evap hookups would all be there.The only thing that you will have to figure out is how to put the fule tank(evap ) pressure sensor on the early unit as the 95 lt1 tank unit probably has one on it.Maybe the tank will work and the LT1 pump /sending unit will adapt to it easily.wouldnt that be sweet?
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:07 PM
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LT1 fuel system

Scrounging thru the inventory ( I have a great O'reilley's that lets me shop in the back room) and I found an intersting fuel pump.
93 Mustang 5.0 - 40-50 GPH, 80 - 90 PSI shutoff. Doesn't actually show pressure at idle, or however you measure it.
Has a very small neck (under 3 inches) that would be easy to fit to the stude tank. Would only need about a 1 inch sump to fit height wise.
[Caprice et.al have a 4 1/2 inch neck and would need a 3 inch sump to fit].
It has only feed and return lines, no vent to canister line.
Any downsides to using this mustang pump?

Afterthought - It's the housing size that looks appealing, couldn't I put a caprice pump in this housing?

Last edited by oldguy829; 10-04-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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