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Old 04-16-2011, 06:59 PM
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Need help with 454 build

I bought a 454 and plan to build it for my '68 camaro. I'm just not sure where to start. I plan on having an 871 blower on it so I need help with cam, Heads...pretty much everything

I'll start with the block, It's already bored .030 over and it came with forged pistons that I know nothing about. Here's all the numbers I could find on the block. 14015445
PASS HI PER F8
GM16
HP 33
GM 7.4L 0
It is a 4 bolt but any other info from someone that can de-code these numbers would be appreciated.

Here's what I could find on the heads
GM-2
B090
14092360
Again, Any info is appreciated.

From what I've read these heads aren't very impressive but they look brand new and already have roller rockers. Would these work for my build or would I be better off getting something else?

The motor also came with an edelbrock performer 2 intake. Any ideas on what kind of compression ratio/hp I'd be at without a blower?

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Old 04-16-2011, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68rscamaro
it came with forged pistons that I know nothing about.
Neither do we.
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Neither do we.
Thanks for the useful information. That's all i can say after reading the last line of this first post. Howdy, another FNG I'm just a newb looking for some advice from the pros.

If someone would let me know what to look for or measure on the pistons I'll get any info that I can. All I know so far is that they are made by speed pro.
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:04 PM
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You should be able to get a number off the pistons, inside and look them up.

How do you expect us to know something about pistons when the only information you give is that they they might be forged?

http://www.roadsters.com/bbc/#bore

engine and head numbers? Mortec is gone?

Do a little leg work, Google is your friend, as is the search feature here.
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:10 PM
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And to find your c.r. you will need much more information, piston dome/dish volume, compressed gasket thickness, bore, stroke, deck height, and more.

Here's a link to one calculator:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68rscamaro
All I know so far is that they are made by speed pro.
I spend an insane amount of time on this forum helping anyone I can, but I'm not a mind reader.

What you don't understand is that figuring static compression ratio requires 5 values.
1. cylinder volume in cc's
2. cylinder head combustion chamber volume in cc's
3. piston crown volume or displacement of dome in cc's
4. piston deck height volume in cc's
5. head gasket volume in cc's

Now suck it up and say you're sorry for being snotty to me.

Also admit that you really do not know that they are Speed Pro pistons because you have not physically inspected them yourself. People will lie to you when they are trying to sell you something. You need to get wrapped around this concept RIGHT NOW. The pistons in your motor could be first quality forged pistons or they could just as easily be weak-suck, Fosdick, cast, reduced compression height, jobber specials.

Last edited by techinspector1; 04-16-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 04-16-2011, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
I spend an insane amount of time on this forum helping anyone I can, but I'm not a mind reader.

What you don't understand is that figuring static compression ratio requires 5 values.
1. cylinder volume in cc's
2. cylinder head combustion chamber volume in cc's
3. piston crown volume or displacement of dome in cc's
4. piston deck height volume in cc's
5. head gasket volume in cc's

Now suck it up and say you're sorry for being snotty to me.

Also admit that you really do not know that they are Speed Pro pistons because you have not physically inspected them yourself. People will lie to you when they are trying to sell you something. You need to get wrapped around this concept RIGHT NOW. The pistons in your motor could be first quality forged pistons or they could just as easily be weak-suck, Fosdick, cast, reduced compression height, jobber specials.


LOL I'm sorry if i came off as "snotty" but you started it And you're absolutely right that I don't understand figuring out compression ratios, If I had all the answers I wouldn't be here. I do know they are speed pro pistons as I do have the motor torn apart. Maybe I need to take a closer look for numbers stamped in them, The only number I saw was a single "4" on each of them.

Lets start over and pretend that I never asked about compression ratios or h.p. What I'm really looking for is info on the block and heads and if they would work well together along with a blower. If so then maybe some recommendations on what cam/pistons to run. If the heads are lacking is there anything that I could have done to them to make them "usable" like porting or milling?
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:14 AM
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OK let us begin anew.

How does a single 4 stamped into the piston crown tell you that the piston is a Speed Pro forged unit? We need to know exactly what these pistons are so we will know whether to keep them or sell them to someone else and buy another type of piston that will work better toward achieving a goal.

I would not begin a blower motor with a production head unless I knew the flow numbers on it.

What is your budget for this project? I don't want to begin talking all forged and a blower if you have only a few thousand dollars.
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:24 AM
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The lightning bolt on the side of the pistons and what the seller told me is all I'm going off of. Are the numbers on top of the pistons? The 4 that I found is on the bottom near where the rod connects.

How do I go about getting flow numbers on my heads?

As far as budget...I want to do it right but at the same time this isn't going to be a drag car. Just plan on attending some local shows and cruise night.
I would like to build the motor for 2-3000 or less if that's possible.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:13 AM
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An off the shelf Weiand 8-71 blower kit is $3,300.00 itself. You could get lucky and find a serviceable blower off CraigsList or eBay, but some old story, buyer beware, blowers are normally run hard.

A couple of 750/850 blower carbs will run around $600 each, figure a forged rotating assembly will start at $1,500, a decent set of heads, if you need them, aluminum is a plus for a blower motor, around $800 each, cam and lifters, spring kits starting around $500, a good blower timing master ignition system, possibly an alcohol injection system to help with detonation. And believe me, count on a couple thousand dollars for miscellaneous parts, machine work, etc. this is assuming you will assemble it yourself.

Put some thoughts into the trans, differential and suspension, a blown big block can be brutal. No matter what they say, nobody is going to always tippy toe around when they have a car like that hooked to the seat or their pants.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but don't go into this project with a $3k budget, even buying used parts. Find a copy of Pat Ganahl's book
"Street Supercharging" for a ton of information, then start your build plan.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:27 AM
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i second that... and honestly you really do not need a blower.. i built a nice stout big block that is running around 550 HP/TQ and it does me just fine. doesnt really seem like much on paper, but with 3.73's and a Th 350 she will scoot right along and i still have trouble hooking up with 12" of rubber on the ground...
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:17 PM
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Here's the "cast" piston that I have. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STL-H661CP

I was hoping for around 3 grand just to build the motor not including the blower. But it still sounds like it may go out of my price range by the time it's all done.

So if I scrap the blower idea I would be plenty happy with 550 hp/tq like chevykid has suggested. So will my pistons be fine? The cam is junk so I need a new one either way so I'm open to suggestions. Is the 550 (or close to it) doable with my heads or should I start looking for something else?

The pistons I posted aren't .030 over but other then that I'm sure there the same. The number right off the top of my pistons is H661cp-030
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Old 04-17-2011, 03:42 PM
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The heads are '85-'89 round peanut ports, probably 116 cc chambers, 2.06"/1.72" valves. They'll make good towing power up to 4000/4500 rpm's. Frequently used in production boat motors.

The pistons are "rebuilder specials", having a 0.020" less compression height to allow the machine shop to cut the decks 0.020" for clean-up and still maintain the OEM piston deck height.

Adding up the dimensions of all reciprocating components, you will arrive at a "stack" of parts. The stack in this case would be 9.760". (1.625" for the piston, 6.135" for the rod and 2.000" for the crank radius). If the block is stock block deck height at 9.800", this leaves a piston deck height of 0.040". Add a gasket to this and you're a little thick for a good squish.

Figuring static compression ratio with what you have now, I find 7.59:1, not what you would consider a good start for any kind of naturally-aspirated performance.

I would not begin any kind of build with those pistons either, so what you basically have is a block, crank and rods.

There are many BBC cylinder heads out there, but most of them will fracture a modest budget. What I might do in your case is find a set of 049's and build from there....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/454-H...item3366780f07
These are bare heads, shop Competition Products for a valve kit.

With 113 cc chambers, a short dome piston such as this would yield 9.5:1 SCR and give you the opportunity to install a good healthy cam.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB203-030/

Last edited by techinspector1; 04-17-2011 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:38 PM
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Right on thanks man. I don't have any problem with buying those heads or pistons. Will my intake and everything out of my existing heads be able to swap into the 049's or do I start over?
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Old 04-18-2011, 01:31 AM
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The intake you have is crap. Even if it were made for large oval port heads, which it probably is not, it's still crap. Mate up an Edelbrock RPM intake to the heads and pick up an easy 40 hp. Sell the pistons, heads and intake on ebay or craigslist or in some boat mag. Make plans for large primary, equal-length, tuned, long-tube headers. If you don't buy anything else for the motor, get good headers with a minimum 3/8" thick flange. They'll be worth 50 hp over those cheezy Fosdick "shorty" headers. Install first quality ARP bolts in the rods after having them magnafluxed and re-sized. Once you get your stack together, measure the block to see if it needs to be decked to help you arrive at a proper squish. Others may look at it differently, but I believe you need a little extra room with a big block, so I might shoot for 0.045"-0.055" squish with the tight piston to wall you will have with KB hyper pistons. Read carefully the instructions with the pistons. They require a different top ring gap than what you or your machinist may be familiar with.

Last edited by techinspector1; 04-18-2011 at 01:42 AM.
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