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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:28 PM
matts37chev's Avatar
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by the way, since we are talking lug nuts

the cheapest place I have found to buy lug nuts is costco, by far

I was in there getting some new ones for the wifes toyota yesterday
0.48 a piece

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:31 PM
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Here's a picture and some details I just took from the oblong slot in my wheels.
The slot is barely (1/16") longer than it is wide. There is a very mild "lip at the inner edge but nothing that would qualify as a machined groove for a washer. I think it was caused by repeated torquing on a washer. There is no edge whatsoever at the outer edge. That's just discoloration (rust) from previous washers and/or lug shanks. When the wheels are on and the lugs are on, the shanks sit very firmly against the outer edge of those oblong shanks. Don't think the wheel can move at all (a good thing!). I also just learned from Terry Rowe at AKH Wheels, that U.S. Indy (one of my wheels) never used oblong multi fit stud holes. Since my other three wheels (Shelby Cal 500) are identical wheels. I'm assuming both wheels were made by the same manufacturer. Others have surmised as much. From there, I'm guessing (and Rowe is the one who suggested this), that a previous owner had the wheels drilled either for the Corvair they just came off of, or for another car that needed another 1/16" closer to the center of the wheel. Looks like regular old shank washer time to me. Anybody see something here I'm missing (and trust me...I know very little in this area other than the great education I've gotten the past few days)?

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
by the way, since we are talking lug nuts

the cheapest place I have found to buy lug nuts is costco, by far

I was in there getting some new ones for the wifes toyota yesterday
0.48 a piece
I got mag shank lugs with washers at Autozone today for $4.76 for a four pack.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:41 PM
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Earlier, RWENUTS referenced Rob (FRS FED) talking about his modification on shank lugs for racing. Rob said:

"If anyone has noticed these are mass produced and actually aren't 100% round either. Next time you unscrew your shank as it comes out of the wheel, watch it you will see a lot of the times they are egg shaped. Over time this eats up the wheel."

Wonder if this might also be a reason why my 40+ year old soft aluminum wheels have slots that are now 1/16" longer than they are wide? Just sayin'...
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:48 PM
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On this or another forum (can't remember which) somebody mentioned "Massey" on eBay as an expert of wheels/lugs/washers. I checked out their store and they do seem to be pretty expert. Anyway, I wrote to Massey and asked the same questions. Here is the response I just got.

HI KEN,

WHO TOLD YOU THAT YOU NEEDED OFFSET WASHERS? THE ONLY WHEELS THAT NEED OFFSET WASHERS IS CRAGAR SS, KEYSTONE AND ET.

SO MANY OLDER WHEELS HAD OVAL HOLES AND REGULAR WASHERS WERE NEEDED MOST OF THE TIME.

SINCE YOU DON'T HAVE ONE OF THE WHEELS ABOVE, I THINK YOU NEED REGULAR WASHERS. PEOPLE SEE OVAL HOLES AND JUST ASSUME THE WASHER HAS TO BE OVAL.

THERE ARE A FEW OTHER EXCEPTIONS LIKE APPLIANCE THAT NEEDS A WASHER/FLANGE.

TRY A REGULAR WASHER AND SEE IF THAT IS CORRECT.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
^^^^^^^^^that style washer is for ET style wheels
he does not have ET style wheels



standard mag style lug nuts and regular washers is what he needs
Though similiar that one in the picture is not for an ET wheel. An Et wheel washer takes a lug nut with a conical seat. The hole is tapered and uses a lug nut like this. You can see the taper in the washer.
http://marketplaceadvisor.channeladv...55&i=247969888
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:56 PM
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Dale Wilch has just responded after seeing the pictures and says:

"I think these are actually round. Maybe from use (or misuse) they look oblong" . Thanks Dale Wilch


I think I've found the answer. Thank you all very much for giving me your time and some great resources.
Ken
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 07:57 PM
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I actually had a set of American Racing mags that
used the unilug system. As has been stated, if there's
a machined indention for an oblong washer, then that's
what's required. However, these pics show simply an
oblong hole so several (2 or 3) lug spacings can be used.
This takes a round lugnut washer. The washer is usually
large enough to cover all of the oblong hole.

In my opinion, this is not the best lug mounting system.
My mags moved on the studs, even with the specified
torque. This reamed out the holes giving an even more
loose fit over time. (It took about 50K miles if I recall.)
I'd look into using a set of hubcentric rings with these
wheels. They'll help a lot.

Those also look a lot like the old Ansen Sprints.
American Racing sells a new version of that wheel, or
maybe they bought out Ansen? They're listed on the
AR website.....
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnin'OnEmpty
I actually had a set of American Racing mags that
used the unilug system. As has been stated, if there's
a machined indention for an oblong washer, then that's
what's required. However, these pics show simply an
oblong hole so several (2 or 3) lug spacings can be used.
This takes a round lugnut washer. The washer is usually
large enough to cover all of the oblong hole.

In my opinion, this is not the best lug mounting system.
My mags moved on the studs, even with the specified
torque. This reamed out the holes giving an even more
loose fit over time. (It took about 50K miles if I recall.)
I'd look into using a set of hubcentric rings with these
wheels. They'll help a lot.

Those also look a lot like the old Ansen Sprints.
American Racing sells a new version of that wheel, or
maybe they bought out Ansen? They're listed on the
AR website.....

Luckily this is a Corvair Station Wagon Rat Rod with 80 blistering H.P. All I need is decent balance and safety...not anything to stand up to monster torque. That being said, I know the difference between hubcentric wheels (which I wish these were), and lug centric. Never know you could get "hubcentric rings". Please tell me who sells these, or if they need to be machined.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 08:39 PM
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Pick your poison.
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...47l673l16l16l0
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWENUTS

Cool. So I'm guessing I need the O.D. of the Corvair hub and the I.D. of the wheels, and then need to find a compnay that either sells that specific monster or makes them?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:25 PM
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Yeah, I think you're right, with the closer picture and your art work It looks like the hole has simply been opened a little and it doesn't use the offset washers.

As far as the wear and safety, I think you would know pretty quick if it was out of round, you aren't going to drive like that!

Brian
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2012, 12:43 AM
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Winner,winner chicken dinner!

And the winner is Canzus on post#27! the 73128 lug with a round washer is correct.His U.S. INDY and Shelby slots use this style lug and washer.I sold these Mags from the late 1960's through the early 80's and even have them on my own '54 Ford car.His wheels have a 4 on 4 1/4" and 4 on 4 1/2" bolt pattern my Ford is 5 on 4 1/2" (Ford & Mopar) and 5 on 4 3/4"( GM ) Remember He said there was a problem getting on the last lug nut? Here is why.The shank of the lug nut bottoms on the outside edge of the slot the resulting gap you do not see leaves it open to moisture and over time you will see a buildup form there.Solution is this: lightly dress the edges of the slot with a round file when you install the lugs pickup a can of Marine wheel bearing grease and lightly grease the slot,7/16" studs should be torqued to 75 ft lbs 1/2" to 85 ft lbs and retorque after 100 miles of driving.I bought the lugs for mine at Wally World about $4 for a pack of five.The wheels that used the oblong washers were primarily E.T.'s which used the short style with a beveled base,another odd wheel was International just down the road from E.T. in Benicia,CA they had tapered elongated slots with a cone shaped lug nut.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Yeah, I think you're right, with the closer picture and your art work It looks like the hole has simply been opened a little and it doesn't use the offset washers.

As far as the wear and safety, I think you would know pretty quick if it was out of round, you aren't going to drive like that!

Brian
Brain...see...it IS rocket science!
Ken
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2012, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB
And the winner is Canzus on post#27! the 73128 lug with a round washer is correct.His U.S. INDY and Shelby slots use this style lug and washer.I sold these Mags from the late 1960's through the early 80's and even have them on my own '54 Ford car.His wheels have a 4 on 4 1/4" and 4 on 4 1/2" bolt pattern my Ford is 5 on 4 1/2" (Ford & Mopar) and 5 on 4 3/4"( GM ) Remember He said there was a problem getting on the last lug nut? Here is why.The shank of the lug nut bottoms on the outside edge of the slot the resulting gap you do not see leaves it open to moisture and over time you will see a buildup form there.Solution is this: lightly dress the edges of the slot with a round file when you install the lugs pickup a can of Marine wheel bearing grease and lightly grease the slot,7/16" studs should be torqued to 75 ft lbs 1/2" to 85 ft lbs and retorque after 100 miles of driving.I bought the lugs for mine at Wally World about $4 for a pack of five.The wheels that used the oblong washers were primarily E.T.'s which used the short style with a beveled base,another odd wheel was International just down the road from E.T. in Benicia,CA they had tapered elongated slots with a cone shaped lug nut.
Jeff...where you been buddy? Thanks for coming to the rescue.
Ken
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