need help with buddies 355 sbc timing!!!! - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:02 PM
350vortec's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2012
Location: manitoba
Age: 24
Posts: 45
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
need help with buddies 355 sbc timing!!!!

my buddies got a 355 sbc that is being a pain to time, its idling around 950 and about 600-700 in gear, right now with a 700r4 and a stock stall converter until he can afford a 2800+ (hes not driving it anywhere yet just setting it up) every time i get it to advance past 0-4* BTDC it stalls out but runs pretty good when its retarded more then 0- 15* AFDC, does this make any sense??

its got cast dart angle plug heads (unsure of which ones) with a vic jr intake 600 cfm edelbrock carb, and a solid flat tappet cam xe282s 244/252 degrees duration at 0.050 inch tappet lift, it has 0.520/0.540 inch max lift, and is ground on 110 center.

can someone please shed some light on this!!??

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2012, 09:39 PM
68NovaSS's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Working with chromed bolts
Last journal entry: New to me T-Bucket
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nine Mile Falls/Suncrest, WA
Posts: 5,249
Wiki Edits: 9

Thanks: 105
Thanked 133 Times in 124 Posts
Do you have the correct timing cover and timing pointer? GM made several with different pointer locations. Have you verified TDC and the damper markings?
__________________
Boost adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl...

Midnight Sun Street Rod Association
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2012, 10:09 PM
350vortec's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2012
Location: manitoba
Age: 24
Posts: 45
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Ya we bumped the crank over with the starter with #1 plug out to feel for compression and turn tell tdc by hand and the mark on the balancer is lined right up with 0.

Would a to rich mix fuel mixture cause this? When we have it set at 0* with vacuum advance hooked up to manifold vacuum, it runs pretty good but is also hard to start. when starting with it set at 0 we had to have WOT in order for it to eventually fire then it ran good after it started. A little poping out the exhaust after we hit the gas harder and let off. I'm a lil boggled here of what's going on
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2012, 11:15 PM
DoubleVision's Avatar
Not Considered a Senior Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Heart Of Dixie
Age: 40
Posts: 10,658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 15
Thanked 59 Times in 56 Posts
There's no doubt it's off at the balancer. The balancer could have spun which is common on older small blocks. I have NEVER seen a small block with a carb that would run with retarded spark timing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2012, 06:45 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
Use a piston stop tool to determine tdc.

That cam requires a 3000 rpm stall converter.

A cam that size will need 20-25 degrees at idle and 36 to 38 total. And another 10 from the vacuum advance (if the engine can make enough vacuum). Also, setup idle at 1000 rpm.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2012, 11:30 AM
Blazin72's Avatar
You got a leaky spark tube...
 
Last wiki edit: Rearend removal
Last journal entry: General Lee
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Union, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 2,868
Wiki Edits: 19

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350vortec
Ya we bumped the crank over with the starter with #1 plug out to feel for compression and turn tell tdc by hand and the mark on the balancer is lined right up with 0.
That isn't an accurate way to check TDC. As a slightly different example, I recently finished replacing a cylinder and head on an ATV without correctly locking the crank in place. Instead, I tried turning the crank by putting the transmission in 5th gear and turning the tires. I thought I had the engine locked in the right place then installed the cam and reassembled the chain. After it was all back together it wouldn't even crank over when it came up on the compression stroke. Everything "looked" correct but it wouldn't run. I ended up pulling the cam cover back off and lined up the crank using the correct method and sure enough I had the cam one tooth advanced. It runs great now that I did the job correctly.

The moral of my story is that doing things the easy or the quick way isn't always the right way.

First disconnect and plug the vacuum advance then recheck your timing and go from there.

Then you may need to find actual #1 TDC compression without relying on or even looking at the current timing tab and balancer. Doing so can definitely skew your judgement and you'll trick yourself into thinking you're getting it right. Once you know exactly where TDC is then look down and see if your timing marks line up like they are supposed to. It is entirely possible that the tab and/or balancer are not correct.

Setting timing by ear is not a good idea either.

Last edited by Blazin72; 05-20-2012 at 11:37 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:20 AM
350vortec's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2012
Location: manitoba
Age: 24
Posts: 45
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Hey thanks guys for the replies, I just ordered the spark plug piston stop from summit so when it gets here ill try to find true tdc and go from there. Is there a proper procedure to using this kind of piston stop? Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:47 AM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 380 Times in 374 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350vortec
Hey thanks guys for the replies, I just ordered the spark plug piston stop from summit so when it gets here ill try to find true tdc and go from there. Is there a proper procedure to using this kind of piston stop? Thanks
loosen off both valves on that cylinder. Turn the crank BY HAND slowly in one direction. mark where it stops. Turn it in the opposite direction. Mark where it stops.

TDC is in the center of the two stop marks .

You can make your own TDC piston stop using the empty shell of a spark plug and a 3/8" steel tube. Weld the tube in the spark plug hole. trim the end length as required. May need to bend the end slightly (to contact a dished piston before TDC)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 12:38 PM
350vortec's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2012
Location: manitoba
Age: 24
Posts: 45
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Ok thanks, is loosening the valves a must? Would it work to just screw in the piston stop on the compression stroke and then turn it over, mark, turn it back a tad, unscrew it and then turn the engine back untill the piston is close to tdc again then screw it back in and turn it tell it touches?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 01:18 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 380 Times in 374 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350vortec
Ok thanks, is loosening the valves a must? Would it work to just screw in the piston stop on the compression stroke and then turn it over, mark, turn it back a tad, unscrew it and then turn the engine back untill the piston is close to tdc again then screw it back in and turn it tell it touches?
No get some one to help you do it right.

Make sure the piston is down and the valve rockers are completely backed off on that cylinder (#1) before instaling the piston stop. It may strike the moving valves.

If you cannot reset the valves get some one who can.

When you weld the pipe into the spark plug body do not weld the hole completly shut. You need a breather hole in the piston stop.

The right length and slight angle of the end of the steel tube extending from the spark plug body may need tweeking to get it right.

IO EC

You sound like you need help for this. Take it to a engine builder if nessessary.
if this is a fresh build from a shop call the shop that built it. FIRST.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 05-23-2012 at 01:24 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 02:20 PM
350vortec's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2012
Location: manitoba
Age: 24
Posts: 45
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 7
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
No I don't need help with resetting rockers or anything. I've done all that a # of times, I've just never used a piston stop before so I was just simply asking for my on curiosity. I got no prob backing off the rockers I just wanted to know if it was a MUST, seeing as it sounds that way, I WILL back them off and do it as u first said. Btw thanks for the help
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:20 PM
cool rockin daddy's Avatar
1.21 giga-watts???!!!!
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: wherever cool cars are
Posts: 1,535
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Just use the piston stop you ordered. You don't want to cobble one up with "an old spark plug with a pipe welded to it" if you've never used one before. sheesh.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:02 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
I recommend to pull ALL the spark plugs so the engine turns over easy.

insert the tool into #1 cylinder then turn the engine over slowly and easily by hand until the piston hits the tool. Mark the balancer at the tdc mark on the timing chain cover

Spin the engine over the OTHER direction until the piston stops again. Mark the balancer again at the tdc mark on the timing chain cover.

the center point between the 2 marks is TDC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Low buck 355 sbc not running correctly, wanting to much timing. ForceFed86 Engine 68 04-13-2011 12:35 PM
355 sbc timing help schottout Engine 2 12-12-2009 12:33 AM
SBC 355 Timing Question Fasazu Engine 7 10-16-2009 08:59 PM
SBC 355 Timing Question Fasazu Engine 1 10-14-2009 09:43 PM
355 update and timing question. Jared Engine 4 06-04-2003 04:26 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.