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Old 12-03-2005, 04:08 PM
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Need help building drag/street suspension.

Hi Guys.

I have a 68 camaro with a bbc, 12 bolt rearend with multi leaf springs. The car is registered as a street car, but it only sees a very limted street time. I'm running a 10.5x28.5x15" tire in the back. This time around I'm going to take out the interior and the rear seat, also I have a 12 point chrommoly cage on the way.

I have just sold my old ls7 454 for a new 540 bb with about 700 hp and a shot of 250 hp nitrous. And I don't really know how to upgrade my suspension for my new engine.

I have to retain my stock appearing rear axle and suspension (no 4 - link), so I was thinking about putting on a set of caltech bars instead of the slapper bars I have now, and a new set of dampers (will my old leaf spring work or do I need new ones?). The same goes for the front end I have to retain the stock A - arms (no I can't use tubular A - arms), so I have been thinking about doing the guldstrand mod. and adding a quick ratio steering box and new set of lowering springs and dampers.

Is the setup I have out lined above OK or is way of? .. and which components would you guys suggest?

For those of you that want to know, with the old engine the car ran 7.2 in the 1/8 without gas, full stock interior, and a race ready weight of 3620 lbs incl. me.


Any help will be greatly appreciated.

sune

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Last edited by sune; 12-03-2005 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 12-03-2005, 05:43 PM
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Go with the Caltracs or a set of slide-a-links. Best thing you can do for traction AND street use. Throw some adjustable shocks into the mix and you will have all the tuning you need.
If the springs aren't broke... don't fix 'em. The Caltracs and adjustable shocks will allow you to fine tune your launch and, as long as the springs are in good shape they should work just fine.
I don't think the Guldstrand stuff will do you any real good on a drag car. I would just rebuild the front suspension with some Del-a-lums, stick in your lowering spring of choice and another good set of adjustable shocks.
Mark
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Old 12-03-2005, 09:38 PM
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check out this entire recent thread


traction 67 camaro
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:26 AM
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Astroracer>> About the caltechs vs the slid-a-link bars which is the better design? and about the guldstrand... wouldn't that improve the bump steer when the car settles down after unloading the front wheels?

xntrik>> thanks for the link... there is some good info in that thread.

again thanks for taking an interest.

sune
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:31 AM
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There are some other tricks you can pull which don't directly involve the leaf springs. First, disconnect the front sway bar and find the heaviest rear sway bar you can. (By "heaviest," I mean the bar which will give you the most rear roll stiffness. I wasn't referring to weight.)

But, the slickest trick would be to install a high rate RIGHT front spring. This would be very easy with a Mopar, since the torsion bar adjustment is available to bring your rear tire loadings back to where they should be. You'll have to use a little ingenuity to do the same with coils. And, of course, you'll want to buy or borrow some wheel scales to make certain that your rear wheel loadings are what you want. But, this can do more to equalize rear tire loadings during launch than any adjustments available with the trick leaf spring add-ons.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShope
There are some other tricks you can pull which don't directly involve the leaf springs. First, disconnect the front sway bar and find the heaviest rear sway bar you can. (By "heaviest," I mean the bar which will give you the most rear roll stiffness. I wasn't referring to weight.)

But, the slickest trick would be to install a high rate RIGHT front spring. This would be very easy with a Mopar, since the torsion bar adjustment is available to bring your rear tire loadings back to where they should be. You'll have to use a little ingenuity to do the same with coils. And, of course, you'll want to buy or borrow some wheel scales to make certain that your rear wheel loadings are what you want. But, this can do more to equalize rear tire loadings during launch than any adjustments available with the trick leaf spring add-ons.

Turning "UP" a torsion bar does NOT increase the spring rate of the torsion bar, it only makes the ride height higher.

On a coil car, if a higher rate spring is installed, the ride height should remain the same...... unless you want to put wedge into it (static weight jacking), which is a different subject.

No matter what you do to the front springs, it will not alter the amount of "body torque roll" on launch. The driveshaft/engine torque will still try to suck the right rear wheel up into the wheel well and roll the body to the right.

Do the rear anti-roll bar if you want... but CalTracks are far superior.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Turning "UP" a torsion bar does NOT increase the spring rate of the torsion bar, it only makes the ride height higher.
You're absolutely correct. The point I was making is that the torsion bar adjustment is equivalent to adjustable coilovers on a coil spring car, thus making it very easy...with a Mopar...to install a higher rate right front spring and then adjust back to the same rear wheel loadings with the adjuster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
On a coil car, if a higher rate spring is installed, the ride height should remain the same...... unless you want to put wedge into it (static weight jacking), which is a different subject.
Again, I agree. And, this is where the adjustable coilovers are the best deal, but, if they're not allowed, the solution is more difficult...though not impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
No matter what you do to the front springs, it will not alter the amount of "body torque roll" on launch. The driveshaft/engine torque will still try to suck the right rear wheel up into the wheel well and roll the body to the right.
I'm still in agreement. In fact, the "body torque roll," with the higher rate right front spring, will be even greater. And, that's why the idea is sound. When the left front corner rises on launch, that means the right rear is coming down, resulting in a force that tends to overcome the unloading of the right rear tire.

Another way of looking at it is to consider the loads on the two right side tires. The sum of those loads must remain constant. If it did not, the car would roll over. Since the right front (with the higher rate spring) is going to unload "faster" than the left front, this means the majority of the weight transfer is going to the right rear, where it tends to counteract the driveshaft torque effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Do the rear anti-roll bar if you want... but CalTracks are far superior.
I never meant to imply that adjustment of relative roll stiffness is the "complete" answer. Since it's impossible to completely remove the front roll stiffness, it's equally impossible to totally cancel the driveshaft torque with such a scheme. Maximizing rear roll stiffness does, however, minimize the necessary "fiddling" with the CalTracks or their equivalent.

The use of a high rate right front spring, however, does offer the capability to completely cancel driveshaft torque. In fact, overcompensation is a distinct possibility, meaning the loading on the right rear would be greater than that on the left rear during launch. What I DON'T like about the high rate right front spring solution is that it involves the springs at all! What I'm getting at is that, if you involve the springs in any scheme, you're stuck with dynamic loading problems. Yes, it's easy enough to calculate, for a given car, the spring rates to achieve 100% cancellation, but that isn't what you're going to get! Instead, the left front is going to pop into the air, the right rear will drop down and then everything is going to oscillate around the calculated position until the shocks bring everything under control. While this is an improvement over the "stock" condition, it would be far better to avoid the oscillatory loadings. This can be accomplished with some form of asymmetric rear suspension linkage. The unequal loading is carried through the links and, if the car has 100% anti-squat, the springs aren't even affected during launch. (An example of this arrangement is the 3link arrangement used on the early Jaguar C-Type, where the single upper link is offset to the right of the car's centerline.)
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:45 AM
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ive seen on some dirt trackers box over the bottomside of thier a-arms for added strength if this is allowed maybe its something youd be interested in as far as the rest of the body roll crap i was learnin as i was reading ive never messed with any thing but dirt suspension
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