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Old 10-26-2005, 09:27 AM
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need help to choose a cam

Hi everybody,

I have a really good project I want to make really soon.

I will build a 434 small block chevy stroker. Everything will be forged 4340 material.

I already have a 3.73, but I will change it for a 4.10.
My stall is a B&M holeshot 3500 with anti-balloon plate.

I will probably buy Dart pro 1 230cc aluminum head with a high rise aluminum intake, like a super victor or something else. Electric water pump etc...

I want the maximum outpout from this motor, my goal is around 550HP it's possible.

The CR will be 10.5:1 for gaz pump used. I was looking for mechanical magnum or something else.

Do you think I can used my 750 mighty demon double pumper (or he will be too big for my next project.)

If you need more information to help me to choose my cam, dont hesitate to ask!

Thanks allot in advance,

Stephane

P.S. I want to put this motor in a Chevy Nova SS 74

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Old 10-26-2005, 10:07 AM
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Dart 230's are to big for gas on 434's. good for alky though. You'll need about a 220cc to save low speed power. 550 is kinda high to expect outa a 434 with 10.5. You'll need to spin it to at least 7500 and that's mandates a solid cam in the 250 to 260@.050 range. A custom grind is your best bet. You need a long duration cam with high lift but low overlap. And wide LSA in the 110-112. use 11.0 compression. It's pretty obvious you won't be doing a lot of street use so you can afford the timing adjustment's for the track.
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Old 10-26-2005, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsongrass1
Dart 230's are to big for gas on 434's. good for alky though. You'll need about a 220cc to save low speed power. 550 is kinda high to expect outa a 434 with 10.5. You'll need to spin it to at least 7500 and that's mandates a solid cam in the 250 to 260@.050 range. A custom grind is your best bet. You need a long duration cam with high lift but low overlap. And wide LSA in the 110-112. use 11.0 compression. It's pretty obvious you won't be doing a lot of street use so you can afford the timing adjustment's for the track.
This setup is not only for track used. I want to used it as mostly in street used...and abused it

If I go with a roller-cam, will I be able to reach the 550 HP. If I go with 11.0 CR, will I be able to run on 91 octan gaz pump. 7500 rmp, is kinda high for a street used. What is low overlap???

What will be the best CR for a pump gaz.

Thanks to help me!

P.S I want to know if I will be able to keep my 750 mighty demon double pumper...of if he will be too rich for my project..
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Old 10-27-2005, 02:40 PM
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From what I have seen/experienced, 550 should be no problem with a good set of heads. The darts are good, but your goal will be much easier with a set of race ported AFR 210's or 227's , they are around $1400. I am pretty sure the Darts are around $1200 so you are getting a fully ported head for another $200. I would recommend something like the 314HR (252 252 @.050 .600 .600 lift) from comp along with some 1.6 rockers if you want to stay with a hyd roller. I have a 383 with race ported AFR 210cc heads, 236 242 @ .050 hyd roller cam and 10.8:1 compression that went 7.85 in the 1/8th mile in a 3600 lb 89 firebird. That is between 500 and 525 hp at the flywheel right there. Going to a 434 should easily get you 550. Here are some articles to look at.

408 620 hp AFR 227 comp heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article45/A-P1.htm

383 545 hp AFR 210cc race heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article72/A-P1.htm

383 540 hp AFR 195cc race heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article85/A-P1.htm

383 554 hp AFR 195cc comp heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article31/A-P1.htm

Here is a good dart VS afr article
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article96/A-P1.htm

AFR 227
http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/227sbc_rh.htm

Adam

Last edited by firestone; 10-27-2005 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 10-27-2005, 10:53 PM
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I would most definitely go to a roller cam. The benefits of going roller far outweigh the costs in my opinion especially a big inch small block. You also might have to look at reduced base circle as that extra length of the stroke will put the rods extremely close to the cam unless you already got the Dart block with the raised cam. The camshaft I like for what you want is also the 314HR by Comp. The AFR 210's Competition will be a good match for your combination and should allow you to run the 11.1 on pump gas due to the larger 76cc chambers. At .600 lift, they flow 288/220 where the 227 Race Ready flow 292/215. Since you want to run on pump gas, I guess you will be majority driving it on the street which AFR doesn't recommend with the 227's unless going to shaft rockers I think that the 750 Mighty Demon is a very good carb for what you are looking for. Also make sure to get 1 3/4" headers.
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firestone
From what I have seen/experienced, 550 should be no problem with a good set of heads. The darts are good, but your goal will be much easier with a set of race ported AFR 210's or 227's , they are around $1400. I am pretty sure the Darts are around $1200 so you are getting a fully ported head for another $200. I would recommend something like the 314HR (252 252 @.050 .600 .600 lift) from comp along with some 1.6 rockers if you want to stay with a hyd roller. I have a 383 with race ported AFR 210cc heads, 236 242 @ .050 hyd roller cam and 10.8:1 compression that went 7.85 in the 1/8th mile in a 3600 lb 89 firebird. That is between 500 and 525 hp at the flywheel right there. Going to a 434 should easily get you 550. Here are some articles to look at.

408 620 hp AFR 227 comp heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article45/A-P1.htm

383 545 hp AFR 210cc race heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article72/A-P1.htm

383 540 hp AFR 195cc race heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article85/A-P1.htm

383 554 hp AFR 195cc comp heads
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article31/A-P1.htm

Here is a good dart VS afr article
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article96/A-P1.htm

AFR 227
http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/227sbc_rh.htm

Adam
Notice the RPM they made peak power. Over 6000 in most cases. You don't want to build power in the rpm range you can't reach without blowing up the bottom end. You can extend the rpm range up but that means better part's in the bottom end and that means poor street manners and lot's of money.

A roller is wise. You carb is good to go.

AFR is over rated in my opinion. I keep seeing high flow numbers but all the engine builder's I deal with go back to the dart because they make more usable power.
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Old 10-28-2005, 10:27 AM
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As far as the strength of the bottom end goes, 6500 RPM should be no problem with 4340 parts and L19 rod bolts. I agree that with a roller cam you will want to keep the RPMs at or under 6000 RPM to avoid valve float though. In that case, I think the 210cc heads would be the way to go along with the 314 cam. The 227s would make more peak power, but the 210's would make for a snappier street motor. Johnsgrass, I dont know if you have access to any of the builders dyno sheets, but I would be interested in seeing some Dart/AFR combos where the darts made more useable power. I am not saying you are wrong, but this is something I hadent heard, and would like more info.


Thanks,
Adam
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