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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2013, 02:41 PM
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Never expected to go this far with it but in trying to do a good job and not ignore the advice here I felt like I needed a good base. I found a lot of rust due to poor body work.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2013, 03:19 PM
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Hello, for some reason, I missed this thread but, about 5 years ago I did BMW very much like yours....in fact I did it for a Body Shop owner. It didn't look to bad at first, i'd see one of his employees working on it from time to time as a fill in job. One day I walked by and I noticed some rust between the rear bumper and the quarter panel and I asked the employee what his intentions where. He told me that he was just going to prime over top. After hearing that, I was somewhat enlisted to paint the car. As I got into the job, just as you are, the car needed to be stripped.

i chased rust on that BMW for days, even where the paint looked good, underneath the metal was starting to pit (black discoloration, pock marks etc). Now, there wasn't any indication that this was happening by looking at the the majority of the existing paint, only when it was stripped was it noticeable.

If that BMW had not been stripped, I don't think that the paint job would have lasted 6 months. Your doing the right thing...when in doubt, take it to zero and build a proper substrate. Now you know what you have and the longevity of your work will be increased 10 fold.

I wish you the best and after reading the thread, your doing the right thing.

Ray
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:07 AM
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Thank you for posting this. I needed the encouragement. I've been through 3 stages with this. I wet sanded the orange peel out expecting to paint over the clear......then I found clear peeling.....so I spent more time feathering the peeling clear thinking the base wasn't scratched enough in those areas around the edges. I then found more things wrong and painfully decided to go to 0. I found many things wrong with it. Rust in many places. Multiple paint layers in some areas and not others. Cheap paint in some areas. Non dried primer.

I have 2 questions

How can I effectively remove the paint stripper out of seams if it gets in there
How can I effectively strip the plastic parts to 0
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 10:16 AM
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We all need encouragement from time to time, no matter how long we have been doing this. I apologize to all for jumping in, in the middle of the the thread, I hope no one minds.

First of all, to get the stripper out of the seams, I use a cue tip with wax and grease remover on it followed by something like a kitchen knife with a scotch brite pad wrapped around the end followed by the cue tip with w & g.

For the plastic bumpers, I use a bumper stripper made by Marhyde. After the paint has been removed, I wash the bumper with soap and water, rough up the plastic with 320 grit paper and apply 2 coats of Epoxy primer. I'm now using SPI Epoxy because it lays down extremely well, has great adhesion, sand great, stays flexible and is a perfect substrate over plastic.

Hope this helps.

Ray
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-03-2013, 12:26 PM
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Sorry you had to go the extra steps to bare metal, but I assure you that it will be worth it in the end. Since you used a stripper on the car be sure you get it neutralized properly before using any epoxy. After you get it in epoxy, it will start to look much better and you will be able to see your progress. Even though it is taking more work, money, and time than you expected, it will be worth it in the end because you know what you have, and you will be gaining priceless experience for future projects. Again if I can help in any way post or PM.

Kelly
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:05 PM
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So I finally almost have this stripped. I kept going further and further with it. At firts I wasn't going to strip the weather strip channels. Then I decided that since I've gone this far I might as well do them and remove the doors and do the door jambs correctly. I found one of the hinge pins to be loose so I'm glad for that. Then I decided to do the ski rack channels and the tail light housings. Found some more rust. Not much but some none the less.

Now I have a mess. I have seam sealer trashed everywhere. ......As expected ...I wanted to replace it anyway as its ten years old. Might as well. I need to get the old seam sealer out and clean the seams out well enough to not mess up the new seam sealer and paint. How can I do this. .....Heat gun......There should not be paint stripper in there as the seam sealer is still in the seams now. I need to get it safely out and be able to clean it without rusting. Won't even touch the seams until I'm done with the air craft stripper. How do you ever get that stripper out of seams? Sometimes it gums up an has to be scoured off.

I washed the car to get rid of all the stripper. Will have to do this again and again. It's flash rusted pretty heavily. I was going to try to remove that with prep paste or scratch it with 80 grit to prepare it for the spi epoxy primer. What do you think. Spi says if the stripper isn't removed I will sand it into the metal and have adhesion problems.

Stripping paint is rough work. I'm not even going to say the stripper isn't a concern now. I want to make sure it's all gone.

Last edited by glhx; 08-08-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 08:18 AM
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You need to take every precaution when using a chemical stripper. Yes, it will get ground into the metal if it isn't completely removed. Use soap and water to remove the stripper followed by going over the vehicle with a quality Wax and Grease remover several times before sanding the surface rust off with 80 grit. After the flash rust has been removed and your seam sealer has been replaced, apply 2 coats of Epoxy primer. Allow plenty of flash time between coats and after the last coat has sat for about 24 hours, apply whatever filler you need and reprime with Epoxy primer.

Seam sealer removal can be a PITA, depending on the type seam sealer that you are trying to remove, heat may help. I have found that an old fashioned screw driver, scraping the old seam sealer out of the channels works well. There may be others that have a method more to your liking.

I fully understand your frustration with finding rust everywhere on your BMW. I know when I stripped the one I did several years ago, it didn't matter, even areas that looked good on the surface had rust hidden underneath...Your going about it the right way and your end results will show it and it will all be worth it.

Ray
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 11:45 AM
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I didn't tape off the seams before applying the stripper. All the paint is gone around the seams. The stripper won't seap into the seams if the sealer is still in there ....correct?

I will clean it multiple times and then pull the sealer out.

I learned a lot from doing this. If I had to do it over I would tape all the seams and openings.........and then almost dump stripper on the car. Not literally but I would have to been a lot less careful if I had prepped it like that. I have a ski rack channel. You know the one I mean.......it was really complicated to sand it or even scuff it correctly. It has a lot of seam sealer in it.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2013, 03:23 PM
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With the seam sealer in the seams, you should be Okay...after you have the car done. check the seams...make sure that the sealer is intact. If you have any concerns, (it should be alright), you can always re seal the seams after.

When your done, you can stand back and admire the car...it's amazing how it all seems worth it in the end.

Ray
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2013, 07:24 AM
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All the old paint is gone. We removed most of the rust last night, but there is still more surface rust left to go.

The procedure.........I spent 3 hours washing the car. The first time was with water to remove the aircraft stripper

1... Wash aircraft stripper off with plain water

2 ...wash all the metal with dawn
3 rinse
4 rinse again
5wax and grease remover
6 wax and grease remover again
7 run over metal with 80 grit
8 wire wheel all the tight spaces like seams and door hinges....sand with 80 after
9 wax and grease remover till the white cloth stays white.
10 tape off
11 primer the car
12 put filler before 6 days on the spi epoxy
13 run over entire car with high build and find high and low spots
14 sand with 600g
15 wax and grease remover till white cloth stays white
16 paint
17 clear
18 sand clear with 800 to 1000.....scotchbright gray pad first
19 sand clear with 1500
20 2000grit
21 buff with cutting polish
22 buff with finish polish

Right now I'm on step 8. My questions are use of wire wheel. Will it be ok to use? It is dirty and I don't want to work dirt into the metal. I will clean it very well.

Did I clean the metal enough. By the time I used the wax and grease remover to get rid of the air craft stripper.....all that was on the cloth was surface rust. I wasn't going to work the aircraft stripper into the metal so I waited to sand the rust off until after. I think the stripper is gone. I spent 3 hours washing the metal and changed the water out about 10 times. Seams are not cleaned out yet. Car will be clean so as little as possible gets in there. Then a heat gun will try to flush out anything that did.....then hope

I get to my shop 2 days a week so in using the epoxy primer. I will wait 24 hours to let it dry. Then after when I put the filler on top of it I will leave the filler rough without sanding. Then apply the high build over the rough filler. I will then finish sand after high build is dry. I will then shoot a coat of epoxy over the filler after I rough it up with 180 grit. Then shoot more high build over it to find low spots.

Does this sound right. I think if I worked for a shop I would be fired for being so meticulous and taking so long.

Any input of the finish of the seam......I added more welds and ground smooth.....filler will be applied here.....I closed up his gaps. Maybe I should have created a solid seam 1 spot weld at a time. Filler will cover it but I still want to do it professionally. I would never have welded it this way......I would have went higher and used the original spot welds that were used to put the whole quarter panel on..... If I couldn't I would have gone into the window channel. This seam is pretty deep.......wouldn't it have been better to go slower and not have the valley where the weld seam is. There were places where filler was built up to shape the body. I found several of those. I use it to fill low spots. Never to build up panels.
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Last edited by glhx; 08-15-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2013, 07:25 AM
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This is what it looks like now

The whole top side of the quarter panel was filler. The shaped the whole area to fill in 3 dime sized holes. I still don't know why......well.....they didn't use any high build primer either so there was unnecessary bondo everywhere. Is bond cheaper than high build or something. Why would someone do this.

My dodg dart hood was like this too. Te entire hood was built 1/8 inch over the whole hood. There might be 4 half dollar sized low spots. Why fill an entire panel and finish sand an entire panel. What don't I know that makes me want to use filler this way.
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Last edited by glhx; 08-15-2013 at 07:43 AM.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2013, 08:36 AM
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You may have a few areas that are pitted and a wire wheel will work better in that or those areas...just make sure that the "dirty" on your wire wheel isn't oil or grease.

Okay, #12 is fine...not sanding or blocking your filler is not. Apply your filler over the Epoxy within the 6-7 day window...6 is good. Start blocking your filler with 80 grit on a long board as soon as it starts to set up (some people will tell you to go coarser on your first attempt to knock down your filler, that's Okay...I use 80 grit, others don't, this is what works for me). Get your filler as level as possible, even apply a second or 3rd coat if needed to get the area straight. Let the sandpaper do the work, don't push down on the long board/block whatever your using...let the sandpaper do the work. When you have the filler reasonably straight, move to 180 grit on the long board/block...I finish my filler in 320 grit. Some people say it's over kill, maybe it is, I don't get sinking in my clear coat 6 months down the road after everything shrinks up a bit.

Now your ready to apply anther coat of Epoxy, especially if you have areas that you sanded down to bare metal..let it flash and then you can apply at least 2 coats of high build primer. Let this set up at least over night...apply guide coat and begin block sanding.

This should keep you going for a while...when you get to this point, let us know...I'm sure you will have more questions.

With respect to your last post...#41...applying a thin coat of filler over an entire panel is not uncommon, it's called "skim coating" and this procedure is often used in high end restorations and customs to endure that the panel is 100% straight. As long as thicknesses of the filler does not exceed manufacturer's recommendations, it's Okay. 1/8th of an inch at it's deepest would not be a problem...as long as it was applied properly.

Hope this helps.

Ray
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2013, 01:03 PM
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What is the window for filler to add a second coat to it after cutting it with 80grit.

Spi says on all surfaces except metal which is sanded with 80 grit....to use 180grit. Should filler be sanded with 180 to run another coat of epoxy.

The reason for running the epoxy and then hi build for me over the uncut filler is timing. I may not have time to finish sand the filler before the epoxy dries.....i figured if i did it this way it will seal off the area around the uncut filler.....It gets the high build to stick to the epoxy while I'm in the 6 day window. I will have another 8 days before I can be in the shop after this possibly. If I let the epoxy dry ill have to scuff the whole car to get the high build to stick. I don't know how epoxy behaves yet.

I would run all coats on there and come back and sand the high filled spots back off and just roughen the area around the filler and reveal with epoxy and re high build.

On another note. If I have time I will finish the filler sanding and then do the high build.

I'm not up to par on fixing paint yet though.....like feather edging. And the distance to sand around areas to get stuff to stick. That might not make sense. I'm not describing it well
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2013, 02:22 PM
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Really, there is no window to add a second coat off filler after cutting the first with coat with 80 grit. You don' t need to cut your filler with 180 if your going to add more filler. Only if the filler is going to be primed should the coarsest sandpaper be 180 grit...As I mentioned...I finish my filler in 320 grit., then prime it again.

If your concerned about the 6/7 day window for top coating Epoxy, I understand...how about this, Give your car 2 coats of Epoxy, let it flash, apply your filler, level your filler when you can...get the car nice and straight...scuff the entire car with 180 grit (or finer with a block, it won't take that long)...apply 2 more coats of Epoxy Primer over the car, allow flash time and then apply 2 medium wt coats of 2K Primer. That way you can take all the time you want and get the car straight.

Hope this makes sense

Ray
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:20 AM
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It seems like m doing something wrong. I used aircraft stripper to remove most of the paint. There are places everywhere where it did not remove it. Small places like 1/8 diameter. So I'm sanding with a da and using a chisel tediously removing spots all over. I was at it 9 hours last night and its still not done. I've probably spent 50 hours just removing paint. How do body shops do this? The plastic bumpers are a mess. I got 2 coats off and I'm now down to primer. Ill have to sand the rest off with 180 grit. I'm also chasing rust as I'm working onit 2 days a week.

I figured I would be in primer at least 2 weeks ago. I haven't even remover seam sealer yet
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