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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2013, 05:26 AM
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I had to chisel all the bumper paint off. Te stripper didn't remove all the paint in the spot welds. I had to dig out what was left with a pick. Tis was very time consuming. It's not that I'm impatient. It just seems like thee should be a better way to do this.

The yellow spot below the b pillar is a prime example. Those were everywhere. I finally got most of them out. I had to use 40 grit to cut them down. They are mostly in hidden areas where it won't show so 40 was fine.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:33 AM
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Your doing a fine job and sometimes you gotta do what it takes to strip a car...keep at it, it'll all be worth it in the end.

Ray
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
You need to take every precaution when using a chemical stripper. Yes, it will get ground into the metal if it isn't completely removed. Use soap and water to remove the stripper followed by going over the vehicle with a quality Wax and Grease remover several times before sanding the surface rust off with 80 grit. After the flash rust has been removed and your seam sealer has been replaced, apply 2 coats of Epoxy primer. Allow plenty of flash time between coats and after the last coat has sat for about 24 hours, apply whatever filler you need and reprime with Epoxy primer.

Seam sealer removal can be a PITA, depending on the type seam sealer that you are trying to remove, heat may help. I have found that an old fashioned screw driver, scraping the old seam sealer out of the channels works well. There may be others that have a method more to your liking.

I fully understand your frustration with finding rust everywhere on your BMW. I know when I stripped the one I did several years ago, it didn't matter, even areas that looked good on the surface had rust hidden underneath...Your going about it the right way and your end results will show it and it will all be worth it.

Ray
I am not a production painter but have done 20 or so street rods or classics over the years.

I can tell from reading this thread you have already learned a lot since you began this project. Trust me, when you are done you are going to be sooo proud of what you have accomplished. It is truly addictive.

My reason for posting is to reinforce the advice you are getting here. When you are taking a good deal of time to do a project like this, it is imparrative that you cover the bare metal with epoxy as soon as it is metal finished. even if that means doing one panel at a time. Once it is properly cleaned and covered with a couple of coats of Epoxy it is sealed and protected from future rust.

Ray is giving you first class advice. Good luck and keep us posted.

John
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2013, 11:49 AM
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Thank You John, I joined this thread a little late and there are many others that have given stellar advice.

Sometimes motivation comes from knowing that what you are doing is going to make things head in the right direction...just like OP getting advice, when giving it, confirmation always reinforces the reason why we do give advice...it's much appreciated.

Ray
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:02 PM
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I have nothing but respect for the people on this forum. All of your advice and teaching brings me to be more patient.....and a better craftsman. The reason I took this car to metal is because of the advice here......so to say.....I did it because I want to be like all of you. It's truly an honor to be here.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:19 PM
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After chasing rust for days on end with 2 days a week to work on this. I finally got it into epoxy primer.

I stirred the paint can
Poured primer and spi hardener into a mixing cup 1:1
Put it into the paint gun and shook it to mix

Did not know you had to stir the hardener and paint in the mixing cup.

I have to restrip the car. Primer wasn't mixed well enough. Can't mix it by shaking it. I'm about to be sick. I was ready for paint.....body work done.

Also I taped off for seam sealer. It dried before I could pull the tape off. I used sem 2 part.....it also dried in the tip. Basically I need 5 tips and need to do 1 section at a time, didn't know this.

So I have to remove new seam sealer and new epoxy primer. .....

This makes me never want to paint another car again and not even finish this one. My shop is 2 hours from where I live and family life is suffering to get this done. And the $400 mistake....gun cleaner, primer etc....,.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:39 PM
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I'm so sorry to hear that, sincerely sorry to hear that. Sometimes, those of us that do these things on a daily basis take things like stirring paint and primer/clear as a given when the additives are used comes second nature to us and we just assume...again, I am sincerely sorry to hear that you ran into this situation.

I will give you several tips though that will help in the second go around that will save you aggravation and time. About 1 week before you go to apply the Epoxy, turn your can of Epoxy upside down, the next day, turn it right side up, keep doing this on a daily basis, it will save you a good 1/2 hour to an hour of stirring up all the solids that have settled on the bottom of the can...you will still need to stir the primer before adding the activator.

Also, after you have stirred the Primer and added the activator, let it sit for 1/2 hour before applying it to your car. This is called induction time and is highly recommended by most Epoxy manufacturer's.

Again. I am sincerely sorry that this has happened to you and hope that you will keep that excellent attitude moving forward. It doesn't matter how long someone has been in this trade, there are always things that will come and bite you, as in any other trade...they key is to stay the coarse and keep moving forward. I realize that this is disheartening but, I promise, it will all be worth it in the end....and yes, when you look at what you have accomplished, you will want to do another one, maybe take a little time off, but you will want to do another one.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to ask...I only wish that those of us that are trying to give you advice and guide you through this process hadn't assumed that a step such as stirring the primmer might be overlooked.

Chin up my friend, it does get better.

Ray
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 09:45 AM
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I will have to finish this and feel better today. What you said helped a lot. I worked 8 hours that day....drove an hour and a half and then worked till 5 am....I was in no condition to be doing this sort of work. Regardless. I did not mix it in the paint cup.....won't ever do that again.

Some questions I have...

How to prevent rust from forming while stripping other places and letting it sit. In this case I'm doing the whole care and the taping off process and waiting times are somewhat prohibitive to do 1 panel at a time. The rust comes so fast on the body. On the bolt on panels I can leave it bare for 2 weeks and it's barely rusted, on the body it rusts the next day and I'm chasing it. It's light surface rust....when I prime I make sure there is no hint of surface rust of any hint at all.

Another question.......I use a DA to strip panels easily. I need something faster to strip channels in tighter spaces. Before, I used a drill with a wire wheel on it.....or a 2" 40 grit attachment. There has to be a faster way.....the channels and structure trash sandpaper quickly.....as I'm only using the edges of the paper. It ruins the da pad as well. If I was in business I would not make it with the mind set of......I'll just ruin it this time....it's only 1 car and I'll buy another one for the next car.

Wax and grease remover. Going through it quickly. Here's the deal with it.....
I don't understand its behavior. I know you put it on with a wet cloth and take it of with a dry cloth. The remover brings contamination to the surface. And the dry cloth takes it away. My question.........I put it on wet and see the the cloth get dirty. I take it off dry and there is nothing much on the dry pad. I kept noticing this. Thinking since there is nothing on the dry cloth. I must be done and it's clean, to be sure I go over it again. ......and again there is a lot on the wet pad and nothing on the dry pad. After a while I stopped using the dry cloth. Just kept going over it until the wet cloth looked clean. Then waited it to evaporate off the saturated cloth to make sure it was evaporated off of the metal. How do you use this stuff and more important......how does it work and why? How clean does the wet cloth have to be? In sanding......this metal gets filthy. Seems like is impossible to get it perfectly clean....I went through a gallon so far just to get the metal clean and primer clean after body work....any time my hand touched the car I cleaned it fearing any oil on my skin would be trouble. I may be doing over kill. I've never been taught how to do this so even if I did it right there might be a better way.

Seam sealer. Dried before I could get the tape off. When I pulled the tape up it was under some seams sealer.....some of the sealer on the edges could be lifted with my finger nail. How do you apply this...I found it is very important to get the tape off immediately.
Also......it was very liquid.....it's like it wasn't thick enough....when it tacked up I added more in thin spots. Some spots it was way too thick.

Second.....I put it over epoxy primer.....that's fine......
can I put it over high build primer......
Does seam sealer need to be scuffed
Does it need to be primed before its painted
How long should it set before it's painted to make sure it's cured properly

Body work......spi epoxy primer has a 6 day window where you can put something on top of it without scuffing it and adding more. It seems dry after 3 days. How can anything stick to it if it's that dry.....

Spi primer.....doing body work on it.....I wait 24 hours. But can i put filler over the top of it on the 6th day without scuffing it. Here is what I did. I waited till the 6th day.....didn't trust it and scuffed it with 80g....it went to the metal so I primed it again....then waited another 24 hours and did filler work on the second day thinking it would be alright. I'm taking everything very literally. So it took 3 days to do body work just because of primer.
I put the filler on but it wasn't high enough....I let it dry and then sanded 80g scratches in it half hour after it dried then put more on.....I didn't know if it would stick. I doing know these things. Is there a window for filler to be applied to more filler.

I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how some of this stuff works and I'm spinning my wheels doing it knowing things have cured for sure.

Everything I've said here I don't know......I really need to....even the smallest thing. I can do this job....but not as fast as you can because you know what's acceptable and what is trouble. Please help

Last edited by glhx; 09-24-2013 at 10:07 AM.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 10:16 AM
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To start off with, and it may make your life a little easier, also it will show progress...why not go panel by panel...what I mean by that is finish a panel, get it stripped and rust free, wash it off with Wax and Grease remover and Epoxy prime it...if you can do two panels at a time great...that way you are done and not going over the same panel time and time again.

By applying the Wax and Grease remover wet and drying it off with a dry lint free towel is the proper way to use this product. The fact that your continuing to get a film or dark presence on your lint free towel when applying the product is that all steel contains carbon...carbon is black and even a hint of carbon on a damp cloth is going to leave a mark...so don't worry about the cloth not being clean after wiping a piece of bare steel down...your only trying to remove the contamination...not the carbon....if you ever taken a piece of charcoal or even a barbeque briquette and and rubbed it onto a piece of cloth or even your fingers...you know how hard it is to get off, same thing with metal...carbon gives metal strength.

Getting into channels and tight areas with sand paper, a wire wheel anything is a PITA, however it needs to be done in order to do a proper job. Have you ever tried one of these from 3M?

Amazon.com: 3M 9099DCNA Large Area Paint and Rust Stripper: Home Improvement Amazon.com: 3M 9099DCNA Large Area Paint and Rust Stripper: Home Improvement

It may be small enough to get into those tight spaces...they are fairly expensive but, they do last a long time. If someone has suggested this in the past and you have tried it...disregard this suggestion...as I said, I've gotten involved a little late in the project and I'm not sure what has been and what hasn't been suggested.

I hope that these suggestion help and the explanation for why your towel keeps getting dirty even after the panel has been cleaned makes sense. I'm also glad that your "back on the saddle" and getting after the work that needs to be done...keep asking and hopefully we can more thoroughly answer your questions.

All the Best

Ray
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 11:27 AM
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Some specific questions

When laying filler. If I don't get it high enough. Do I have to wait for it to completely harden? Scratch it with 80 and then lay a second coat.
Or do I have a window of time I can work with it to add a second coat without prepping it..I'm using rage gold extreme.

How do I know when all the contamination is removed. I need some information that I just can trust. When I see the black I obviously have not been trusting that when I see it on the wet towel.
When can I trust it to be clean?
What contamination.....what sort am I trying to remove?
I need to know when to stop.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 12:00 PM
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Okay, all good questions...with respect to filler...if you have an area that you applied filler and after you have applied it, you ran out and needed to remix or for whatever reason...your better off to level the filler first. You could mix more and add it to what you already had on but the reason I would level it first is because you never know, what you think might be low really isn't and when you level it you have a better indication of how much to mix for your second application. Chances are, if you have a spot that you apply filler to and you know you need more...your going to need to make more regardless...better to know how much than to waste filler or worse, have to much to take off to get it level.

On bare metal I wash the panel down twice before after I'm done sanding the bare metal and before I apply Epoxy primer, when I'm done my filler work, I don't use wax and grease remover anywhere near the filler, your better off to blow the area free of dust before priming because you don't want the solvents of the wax and grease remover on your filler...the filler will act as a sponge and trap the W & G in the filler not allowing it to dry as quickly as on metal.

What you are trying to remove is exactly what the name implies...Wax (before you start sanding) and Grease (the stuff on your hands from the cheese burger you had for lunch, from the guy that walked by after checking oil in his car and got a bit on his pants just before he leaned up against your bare metal, even any oil or silicone based product that is air born from using W D 40, or the Armour All that the used on the dash before you got the car that seeped out through the vents and landed on your bare metal). W & G is often a preventative measure, like an insurance policy, you hate to make the payments but when you need it, it sure comes in handy. Unfortunately, the only time we know we really needed W & G is when it's to late, when we didn't use it and we have fish eyes in our top coat or an adhesion problem.

Wipe your bare metal down twice, dry it off and I'm sure you will be good to go, products today getting better, wax and grease remover is no exception.

Hope this helps

Ray
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 12:46 PM
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So I have oil on my hands.....naturally. I am touching the wet cloth on one side. What if the side I'm touching rubs onto the car.....or hand slides off the lint free towel

Do I clean it again,

or even the dry cloth. My hand come off the towel slightly and rubs the metal.

My hands are always clean before hand.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 01:12 PM
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Honestly, your over thinking the whole grease from your hands thing...I can promise you that if you wash it down twice, wipe it down each time and let it dry, your going to be fine to prime the panel/panels...I don't know of any ones hands that are so greasy that if they touch a panel while wiping it down it would cause problems...if you put your hand on bare metal before washing them, wait a few days, you will see the imprint of your hand. If you prime shortly after wiping it down (like with a couple of hours) you will be Okay.

It sounds like you are taking every precaution...that's great, more people should but, just follow the advice and you will be fine.

Ray
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:59 PM
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Need to strip this area. It's very tight. Almost need a 1/8" stripping wheel....aggressive. Non backed.

Any ideas
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:26 PM
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I understand that you want most ever bit of paint off the car...that's great, can you not get at that with a piece of 80 grit folded in half, knock off the majority and get the rest with some 180 grit or even 220 grit. I know it's a PITA but a lot of this work is tedious and your so close... What area of the car is this? Is there a molding that cover's this channel?

Ray
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