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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:32 AM
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his 92' already has the stronger 7.625" rear in it with the 28 spline axles instead of the 7.5" with the 26 spline axles. you are right about the TQ arm and the control arms. before i started drag racing my current set up i had a 355 putting out about 390-400hp, I upgraded to a 7.625 rearend from a 91' and I never had any issues with it.

think about this, how many LT1 and LS1 camaro's are out there with a set of headers and exhaust, reprogramed, with an aftermarket intake and just some other bolt on mods. these cars are making about 400hp and still using the same 7.625" rearend. dont get me wrong these rearends are week and will likely be the weakest link on the car with 400+hp/tq but i've seen plenty handle this kind of power without any problems. its the 7.5" rearend with the 26 spline axles which is so much weaker. after saying all this, i must say that with my old set up on my 385, my 7.625" rear didn't last 3 weeks. but it was also putting out 490tq.

I am someone who believes saving the money and doing it right the first time so i understand what you are telling him. I just dont think that is what he looking for. for many people 400hp in a street car is all they will ever care to have. based on the parts OP picked, i assumed that he was on a budget that is why i suggested the iron RHS 180 heads, and believe it or not they actually flow 258cfm @ .500", these numbers came from an independant shop that has flow tested hundreds of different heads on their SF600. most $1000-1250.00 alm heads are right in that range with them so how much would that extra $200-450.00 extra for the alm heads acutally benifit him. they are lighter, but if he's not racing then the extra 50lbs will never be seen nor felt. now for the heating aspect. the alm heads will be easier to cool, but as long as he has a decent electric fan he wont have any problems with the irons heads, on my previous motor set up i used Dart 200cc platinum iron heads and i never had any issues with keeping the motor under 190°.

Yes, would a set of AFR 195's, Brodix IK200's, or Dart pro-1 200's along with a hyd roller cam be his best option for making more power, absolutley. with these he would likely make 50-75 more hp all day but he would also spend another $1500.00 doing it.

Sometimes you have to make recomendations based on what you believe the OP wants, not what you would want.

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Old 07-02-2012, 02:15 PM
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i had to go back and look at both cams to see why i would have recomended the crane cam over the lunati cam. I'm actually a bit suprised that i recomended a crane cam, there is nothing wrong with them they are of a very good quality i just dont look at them very often, i think i picked it solely due to it's profile.

the crane cam has a bit more duration which the 385 will like, the lunati has a tad bit more lift but that isn't enough to be felt. the reason i picked the crane cam is because it's ramp rates are a lot more friendly on a hyd flat tappet valvetrain then the lunati cam's ramp rate. your ramp rate in laymens terms is the difference in duration @ .050 and the advertised duration.
ex. crane cam: 234°-296° which is a difference of 62°, this is basically how fast the valve opens and closes.
lunati cam: 227°-268° which is a defference of 41°, this means that on the lunati cam the valve will be opening and closing (.000"-.489"-.000") in 2/3rds the time of the crane cam. 41° difference is absically what you will see on a solid flat tappet cam and is VERY aggressive. which an aggressive ramp rate means extra stress on the rest of the valvetrain.

now the crane cam acutally has more of a slow ramp rate, 62° is a good bit. if i were to build another hyd flat tappet 383 then i would look for a ramp rate in the 50° range. here are a few that i like a bit better than the crane cam, and i certainly like them better than the lunati cam.

COMP Cams 12-212-2 - COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Lunati 00010 - Lunati Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

this one would probably be my choice, i am a big fan of howards valvetrain products, i have been using them for quite a while with absolutly no problems and their customer service is second to none.

Howards Cams 112141-10 - Howards Cams Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

and as i mentioned before, i wouldn't go with the scoggin dicky vortec heads for 800.00 when the 180cc RHS pro action heads are the same price and are proven to flow better and flat out perform better.

the Eagle kit you chose is just fine, i've used the 4.030" kit before and it worked great for me. if you match the howards cam, a nice performer rpm intake, a simple holley 750 vac sec carb, cheap HEI distributor (60K volt), with those RHS heads, and a decent set of headers and exhaust then you will be sitting in the 410-425hp rane but the kicker will be the 440-460tq you will make, all while using pump gas.
So how much of a difference would I see in the Howards cam vs the Lunati one I posted? I already have the Lunati, got it for a great deal from another guy. I can always just sell it to someone else and get another cam if it would be that big of a difference though.

Now if I go with those RHS's will I need a different intake than the one I posted? I posted an Edelbrock 7516 performer RPM air gap. But it's designed to fit vortechs. Does that matter?

Also about the distributor, I don't really know anything about picking the right one. You said HEI. But what about trigger style, advance type, or computer control compatible? What should I look for in those areas? And I'm sure the gear material matters, but with that I'd need to know the material of the cam, right?

EDIT: And yes, I'm on a budget. But I'm actually using this summer to build the engine, get the tranny and all the stuff needed for that, and the rear end and all that I need for that. I'm planning on doing the whole swap at either spring of next year or beginning of summer of next year so I can use the whole summer to make sure everything runs right and break it in. So I don't know my full budget yet, but it's definitely enough to get what we've been talking about. But yes, if I could afford heads like AFRs or the like, I'd definitely go that route.

Last edited by seanphelps321; 07-02-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:30 PM
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On the stroker's cam profile is important! whether the lift is produced with a low heal (the lowest part of the lobe) or a high toe (the highest part of the lobe) The reason for this is because the rod caps come into close proximity (on longer stroke cranks) with the cam lobes and even hit the lobes on high lift cams and machining is necessary to achieve clearances sometimes negating the use of larger cams! You probably already know this and researched it! But sometimes cams are suggested because of this reason! So I thought Id mention it! In case you didn't know!

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Old 07-02-2012, 04:01 PM
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On the stroker's cam profile is important! whether the lift is produced with a low heal (the lowest part of the lobe) or a high toe (the highest part of the lobe) The reason for this is because the rod caps come into close proximity (on longer stroke cranks) with the cam lobes and even hit the lobes on high lift cams and machining is necessary to achieve clearances sometimes negating the use of larger cams! You probably already know this and researched it! But sometimes cams are suggested because of this reason! So I thought Id mention it! In case you didn't know!

Jester
Yes. I knew there are a bunch of clearance issues with strokers. I had an idea that there could be cam clearance problems as well. Thanks for reminding me of that. I'll have to keep that in mind.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:05 PM
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his 92' already has the stronger 7.625" rear in it with the 28 spline axles instead of the 7.5" with the 26 spline axles. you are right about the TQ arm and the control arms. before i started drag racing my current set up i had a 355 putting out about 390-400hp, I upgraded to a 7.625 rearend from a 91' and I never had any issues with it.

think about this, how many LT1 and LS1 camaro's are out there with a set of headers and exhaust, reprogramed, with an aftermarket intake and just some other bolt on mods. these cars are making about 400hp and still using the same 7.625" rearend. dont get me wrong these rearends are week and will likely be the weakest link on the car with 400+hp/tq but i've seen plenty handle this kind of power without any problems.
Not sure where you get this 7.625" information, but both of my LT1 cars came with a 7.5". EVERY LS1 car came with a 7.5 as well. I'm guessing that you are thinking of the oddball Borg-Warner rear that came in a few 3rd gens. Either way both are weak. Possibly with street tires, they will last a long time, but NO WAY at the track or street with a decent drag radial or a sticky DOT tire. Not a chance in hell. My friend grenaded his 10-bolt with a bone-stock LT1 car with a t56 and a set of BFG drag radials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
its the 7.5" rearend with the 26 spline axles which is so much weaker. after saying all this, i must say that with my old set up on my 385, my 7.625" rear didn't last 3 weeks. but it was also putting out 490tq.
They usually snap the teeth off of the ring gear and/or pinion gear when they go. People put a TA Performance girdle on them hoping they will get some life but that is money down the drain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
I am someone who believes saving the money and doing it right the first time so i understand what you are telling him. I just dont think that is what he looking for. for many people 400hp in a street car is all they will ever care to have. based on the parts OP picked, i assumed that he was on a budget that is why i suggested the iron RHS 180 heads, and believe it or not they actually flow 258cfm @ .500", these numbers came from an independant shop that has flow tested hundreds of different heads on their SF600. most $1000-1250.00 alm heads are right in that range with them so how much would that extra $200-450.00 extra for the alm heads acutally benifit him. they are lighter, but if he's not racing then the extra 50lbs will never be seen nor felt. now for the heating aspect. the alm heads will be easier to cool, but as long as he has a decent electric fan he wont have any problems with the irons heads, on my previous motor set up i used Dart 200cc platinum iron heads and i never had any issues with keeping the motor under 190°.
The cooling of the engine is a benefit but the main thing is the ability to up the compression ratio and not detonate. That is something that is FREE that cannot be ignored. Put an iron head on a 383 and run it at 11.5-1 and try to run pump gas. You will have to tune it pig rich and take timing out.

Quote:
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Yes, would a set of AFR 195's, Brodix IK200's, or Dart pro-1 200's along with a hyd roller cam be his best option for making more power, absolutley. with these he would likely make 50-75 more hp all day but he would also spend another $1500.00 doing it.

Sometimes you have to make recomendations based on what you believe the OP wants, not what you would want.
I could piece something together for not much more $$$ and make it much more enjoyable. IMHO vortec heads do not belong on anything over 355 cubes. They simply don't have the ability to feed it correctly. A 355 with a head flowing over 250 will crap all over a 383 on vortec heads. It would cost a lot less too being able to keep the rods, and crank and not needing as much machining. He's going to run a 650 dbl pumper which can support 450+hp, and an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake which can go well over 500hp, and then crutch the build with some tiny heads trying to feed 383 cubes.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:09 PM
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Yes. I knew there are a bunch of clearance issues with strokers. I had an idea that there could be cam clearance problems as well. Thanks for reminding me of that. I'll have to keep that in mind.
You won't run into any problems with rod-to-cam clearance if you run an I-beam rod. Only big H-beams present a problem, and even then, they only get close when the lobe lift is over .400". I have a 4" stroke crank in my motor and run I-beams. I have a smaller base circle cam to compensate for this. ARP makes rod bolts with tiny 12-point heads that allow a little more clearance as well.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:38 AM
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"Not sure where you get this 7.625" information, but both of my LT1 cars came with a 7.5". EVERY LS1 car came with a 7.5 as well. I'm guessing that you are thinking of the oddball Borg-Warner rear that came in a few 3rd gens. Either way both are weak. Possibly with street tires, they will last a long time, but NO WAY at the track or street with a decent drag radial or a sticky DOT tire. Not a chance in hell. My friend grenaded his 10-bolt with a bone-stock LT1 car with a t56 and a set of BFG drag radials."


I'm sorry but you are wrong, in 1989 when they switched to the 28 spline axles they also switched to a 7.625" 10 bolt rear end. the Borg-Warner 9-bolt Australian based rear end and is pretty rare. As of 1989 all car and small truck (S-10) 10 bolt rear ends were the 7.625 rear end. if you dont believe me then look it up.


as for my old 355 set up, yes i ran it at the track with p275/65R15 M/t drag radials and i had the car running 12.80's. these rear ends are a weak link but there are plenty of people out there running low 11's and even 10's with these rear ends still in there car. I've seen it and so have you, you just didn't know it. While you are doing a search on the whole 7.625" rear end. do a search on how strong you can make them and how fast people are going in them. you could also ask Fbird-88 on here, i know that i have heard him talk about using the rear end as well while pushing a pretty fair amount of power.

"I could piece something together for not much more $$$ and make it much more enjoyable. IMHO vortec heads do not belong on anything over 355 cubes. They simply don't have the ability to feed it correctly. A 355 with a head flowing over 250 will crap all over a 383 on vortec heads. It would cost a lot less too being able to keep the rods, and crank and not needing as much machining. He's going to run a 650 dbl pumper which can support 450+hp, and an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake which can go well over 500hp, and then crutch the build with some tiny heads trying to feed 383 cubes."


unless you are going with used alm heads then you aren't going to get away with less than 1000-1250.00, and then to run a hyd roller cam set up will cost you 250-300 for the cam, an additial 100 over the base price for the springs, and then suposing he does not have a roller block as he mentioned, another 300 for the lifters, then another 30-50 for the bronze distributor gear for a total of 1700-2000.00, where as the RHS heads are 800.00 and a set of hyd flat tappet cam and lifters is around 200.00 for a total of 1000.00

I dont know where you get off thinking that i am recomeding the vortec heads to him when i was recomending the RHS pro action 180cc heads and yes these heads flow 258cfm @ .500", it has been independtly flow tested and published. here are their complete numbers:

RHS 180 pro action heads:
.100-74/58
.200-151/101
.300-207/157
.400-243/177
.500-258/186
.600-263/190

to put this into perspective here are the numbers for the out of box Brodix IK200 alm heads:
.100-not listed
.200-123/100
.300-181/145
.400-230/164
.500-253/171
.600-261/176

As per science, if something is able to produce the same or a greater amout of flow/air with a smaller diameter tube/runner then the air traveling in the tube/runner will have greater speed/velocity. the whole point of picking a street head is to find a head that flows as much air as possible within the lift range that you will be using while using the smallest runner possible as to creat greater velocity at the lower ranges of the lift where the motor/valves will spend the majority of their time.


"The cooling of the engine is a benefit but the main thing is the ability to up the compression ratio and not detonate. That is something that is FREE that cannot be ignored. Put an iron head on a 383 and run it at 11.5-1 and try to run pump gas. You will have to tune it pig rich and take timing out."


This does not always work, take my motor for example, i am running 11.2-.3:1 with a 106LSA cam that has an early intake closure, my dynamic compression ratio is well into the mid 9:1's and no i can not run on only pump gas when i drive on the street i have to run 1gal of 110 for every 2gal of 91-93octane. now sure i could tune it and advance the timing so far that i could run on pump gas but i would also loose around 10% or my power getting there.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:42 AM
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@ Joelster

I figure i can get to the bottom of what we should be aiming to recomend here by simply asking:

To the OP, do you want a motor that will be in the 400-425hp range or do you want a motor that will be in the 500hp range.

as with each range our recomendation will be different.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:13 AM
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@ Joelster

I figure i can get to the bottom of what we should be aiming to recomend here by simply asking:

To the OP, do you want a motor that will be in the 400-425hp range or do you want a motor that will be in the 500hp range.

as with each range our recomendation will be different.
I'd love to come close to 400hp. When you said 440tq, that excited me too. As long as the hp/tq is close, then I believe I've achieved my goal.

Now with the RHS Pro Action heads, I will probably need a different intake, correct? The edelbrock 7516 said it's made to fit Vortechs/E-Tec. It looks like the Pro Torkers from RHS are Vortech style, but looking at the one's you recommended, I'll probably need something like this?
Edelbrock 7501 - Edelbrock Performer RPM Air-Gap Intake Manifolds - Overview - SummitRacing.com
It says stock configuration. I'll tried looking it up for these heads, but didn't see it.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:54 AM
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yes, you will need a different intake manifold. my advise would be to sell the vortec style one on either ebay or craigslist. they normally sell pretty easy.

then look on ebay or craigslist for a used performer rpm intake like this one
EDELBROCK INTAKE MANIFOLD SBC CHEVY 305 327 350 400 V8 PERFORMER RPM 7101 | eBay

in IMHO stay away from the air-gap intakes, do a search on this forum about them and then form your own opinion is what i would suggest.

you also mentioned not knowing what to do for a distributor, here

White Performance Detail Description

you dont have to get the clear one, they also have them in red, black, and i think blue.

and as i mentioned i would not go with the 650DP carb, it will work yes, but i dont think that mechanical secondaries is what you are looking for. i think that this carb would better suit your needs and this carb is pretty much one of if not the most popular carb that Holley ever made. they have a very good reputation for being quality. I have used 3 so far with absolutley no problems. but as with all carbs you may have to tune it once you acutally get everything put together so it suits your motor. there may be some that claim to be but not many (if any) carbs are "plug and play".

Holley 3310-2, 750cfm vacuum secondary carburetor | eBay

with the howards cam i recomended, the RHS heads, 3310 750 carb, HEI distributor, the 9.6:1 that the 64cc chambers and 18cc dished pistons will give you, and all tuned correctly is the recipe for a 425hp/450tq 383 (385 in your case) motor.

now be sure to look up quench/squish before you buy a set of head gaskets so that you get your quench @ around .040-.046".

with these 3rd gen f-bodies you will need to do some work to the suspenion and the rear to get it to hold this kind of power. I would either recomend you get a set of moser or strange axles, a better aftermarket carrier, and some stronger aftermarket rear gears. all of this will cost you around 1000.00

here:
UMI Performance 2205-B - UMI Performance Transmission Mounted Torque Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com
UMI Performance 2019-B - UMI Performance Single Adjustable Panhard Bars - Overview - SummitRacing.com

these served me well when i had my 355
Lakewood Suspension 21700 - Lakewood Traction Action Lift Bar Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Competition Engineering C3046 - Competition Engineering Weld-On Subframe Connectors - Overview - SummitRacing.com

and then i would recomend these for the rear end
Summit Racing SUM-700118 - Summit Racing® Direct Fit Axle Shafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Auburn Gear Inc 542046 - Auburn Gear Pro Series Differentials - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Summit Racing SUM-741011 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Ring and Pinion Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

you will spend some money but you have to pay to play, when i put my 385 in my camaro (under the old set up which made 500hp/490tq) I grenaded my rearend within 3 weeks, and that was with street tires, and only giving it about 1/3-1/2 throttle. I looked into fabricating in a 9" ford rearend but once i looked into the Moser 12 bolt direct replacement rearends i found the 9" rearend was going to be more of a hassle since i already had all the suspension parts i wanted and they would bolt up to the new Moser 12 bolt rather easily where as with the 9" is was going to require a good amount of work.

good luck, i hope that all the $$$ signs you just saw that you will likely need to have a stable car didn't scare you off. take your time, do it right, and in the end you will love what you end up with.
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:51 PM
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yes, you will need a different intake manifold. my advise would be to sell the vortec style one on either ebay or craigslist. they normally sell pretty easy.

then look on ebay or craigslist for a used performer rpm intake like this one
EDELBROCK INTAKE MANIFOLD SBC CHEVY 305 327 350 400 V8 PERFORMER RPM 7101 | eBay

in IMHO stay away from the air-gap intakes, do a search on this forum about them and then form your own opinion is what i would suggest.

you also mentioned not knowing what to do for a distributor, here

White Performance Detail Description

you dont have to get the clear one, they also have them in red, black, and i think blue.

and as i mentioned i would not go with the 650DP carb, it will work yes, but i dont think that mechanical secondaries is what you are looking for. i think that this carb would better suit your needs and this carb is pretty much one of if not the most popular carb that Holley ever made. they have a very good reputation for being quality. I have used 3 so far with absolutley no problems. but as with all carbs you may have to tune it once you acutally get everything put together so it suits your motor. there may be some that claim to be but not many (if any) carbs are "plug and play".

Holley 3310-2, 750cfm vacuum secondary carburetor | eBay

with the howards cam i recomended, the RHS heads, 3310 750 carb, HEI distributor, the 9.6:1 that the 64cc chambers and 18cc dished pistons will give you, and all tuned correctly is the recipe for a 425hp/450tq 383 (385 in your case) motor.

now be sure to look up quench/squish before you buy a set of head gaskets so that you get your quench @ around .040-.046".

with these 3rd gen f-bodies you will need to do some work to the suspenion and the rear to get it to hold this kind of power. I would either recomend you get a set of moser or strange axles, a better aftermarket carrier, and some stronger aftermarket rear gears. all of this will cost you around 1000.00

here:
UMI Performance 2205-B - UMI Performance Transmission Mounted Torque Arms - Overview - SummitRacing.com
UMI Performance 2019-B - UMI Performance Single Adjustable Panhard Bars - Overview - SummitRacing.com

these served me well when i had my 355
Lakewood Suspension 21700 - Lakewood Traction Action Lift Bar Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Competition Engineering C3046 - Competition Engineering Weld-On Subframe Connectors - Overview - SummitRacing.com

and then i would recomend these for the rear end
Summit Racing SUM-700118 - Summit Racing® Direct Fit Axle Shafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Auburn Gear Inc 542046 - Auburn Gear Pro Series Differentials - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Summit Racing SUM-741011 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Ring and Pinion Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com

you will spend some money but you have to pay to play, when i put my 385 in my camaro (under the old set up which made 500hp/490tq) I grenaded my rearend within 3 weeks, and that was with street tires, and only giving it about 1/3-1/2 throttle. I looked into fabricating in a 9" ford rearend but once i looked into the Moser 12 bolt direct replacement rearends i found the 9" rearend was going to be more of a hassle since i already had all the suspension parts i wanted and they would bolt up to the new Moser 12 bolt rather easily where as with the 9" is was going to require a good amount of work.

good luck, i hope that all the $$$ signs you just saw that you will likely need to have a stable car didn't scare you off. take your time, do it right, and in the end you will love what you end up with.
I actually don't have the intake yet. I only have the 60103 cam and the 4150 carb. Now what you recommended about the rear, after looking at the parts, are you saying to basically just beef up my current rear end?
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:04 AM
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as for my old 355 set up, yes i ran it at the track with p275/65R15 M/t drag radials and i had the car running 12.80's. these rear ends are a weak link but there are plenty of people out there running low 11's and even 10's with these rear ends still in there car. I've seen it and so have you, you just didn't know it. While you are doing a search on the whole 7.625" rear end. do a search on how strong you can make them and how fast people are going in them. you could also ask Fbird-88 on here, i know that i have heard him talk about using the rear end as well while pushing a pretty fair amount of power.
Fbird-88's car runs 12's so I don't consider that a good example of "pushing" a part too hard.

7.5- 7.625, you are talking about a ring gear .125" bigger. WOWSER, not going to make much of a difference. Yes, I have seen them last, with upgraded axles, posi's, girdles, covers, and then they are $1200 10-bolts, that still can't handle the power of a 12-bolt, or a 9" or a Dana. The ring gears are simply too small, no way around that. A 12-bolt has an 8.75" ring gear a 9-inch has a 9", and a Dana has a 9.75". They are like watching a porcupine play with a balloon. Hit them hard enough and they will pop. No SERIOUS enthusiast would stick with a failure prone part. Run a street tire with an auto trans and they will last a long time. Put a sticky tire on and you are playing with fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
"I could piece something together for not much more $$$ and make it much more enjoyable. IMHO vortec heads do not belong on anything over 355 cubes. They simply don't have the ability to feed it correctly. A 355 with a head flowing over 250 will crap all over a 383 on vortec heads. It would cost a lot less too being able to keep the rods, and crank and not needing as much machining. He's going to run a 650 dbl pumper which can support 450+hp, and an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake which can go well over 500hp, and then crutch the build with some tiny heads trying to feed 383 cubes."


unless you are going with used alm heads then you aren't going to get away with less than 1000-1250.00, and then to run a hyd roller cam set up will cost you 250-300 for the cam, an additial 100 over the base price for the springs, and then suposing he does not have a roller block as he mentioned, another 300 for the lifters, then another 30-50 for the bronze distributor gear for a total of 1700-2000.00, where as the RHS heads are 800.00 and a set of hyd flat tappet cam and lifters is around 200.00 for a total of 1000.00

I dont know where you get off thinking that i am recomeding the vortec heads to him when i was recomending the RHS pro action 180cc heads and yes these heads flow 258cfm @ .500", it has been independtly flow tested and published. here are their complete numbers:

RHS 180 pro action heads:
.100-74/58
.200-151/101
.300-207/157
.400-243/177
.500-258/186
.600-263/190

to put this into perspective here are the numbers for the out of box Brodix IK200 alm heads:
.100-not listed
.200-123/100
.300-181/145
.400-230/164
.500-253/171
.600-261/176

As per science, if something is able to produce the same or a greater amout of flow/air with a smaller diameter tube/runner then the air traveling in the tube/runner will have greater speed/velocity. the whole point of picking a street head is to find a head that flows as much air as possible within the lift range that you will be using while using the smallest runner possible as to creat greater velocity at the lower ranges of the lift where the motor/valves will spend the majority of their time.
You don't have to throw data in my face. Any aftermarket head will make more power than a stock Vortec head. I didn't say that you recommended the Vortec heads. I said they are a bad choice on a motor over 355 cubes. I can find assembled aluminum heads for under a grand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
"The cooling of the engine is a benefit but the main thing is the ability to up the compression ratio and not detonate. That is something that is FREE that cannot be ignored. Put an iron head on a 383 and run it at 11.5-1 and try to run pump gas. You will have to tune it pig rich and take timing out."


This does not always work, take my motor for example, i am running 11.2-.3:1 with a 106LSA cam that has an early intake closure, my dynamic compression ratio is well into the mid 9:1's and no i can not run on only pump gas when i drive on the street i have to run 1gal of 110 for every 2gal of 91-93octane. now sure i could tune it and advance the timing so far that i could run on pump gas but i would also loose around 10% or my power getting there.
Hrmm, that's funny, because 93 pump is all I run. My quench is .040, static is 11.77-1. My dynamic is right around 9.3-1 as well. My car only runs mid 10's at 130 though. I'm headed to the track saturday shooting for some 10.3's hopefully 10.2's at 131-132ish. But what do I know. I would say you probably have a tuning issue, too much timing, too lean or have WAY too hot of a plug to not be able to run pump. I know guys with 12.4-1 static engines with milder cams than mine that run pump and also run 10's. A bone-stock LT4 engine had 10.8-1 compression and a cam with hardly any overlap. Care to guess what the dynamic is on that motor? Cam has 203/210 duration, intake valve closes 31 degrees ABDC. OOps, it has 10.29 dynamic. Those cars run on 91 octane as recommended by GM. Putting your car as an example doesn't mean you are right.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:45 PM
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"Hrmm, that's funny, because 93 pump is all I run. My quench is .040, static is 11.77-1. My dynamic is right around 9.3-1 as well. My car only runs mid 10's at 130 though. I'm headed to the track saturday shooting for some 10.3's hopefully 10.2's at 131-132ish. But what do I know. I would say you probably have a tuning issue, too much timing, too lean or have WAY too hot of a plug to not be able to run pump. I know guys with 12.4-1 static engines with milder cams than mine that run pump and also run 10's. A bone-stock LT4 engine had 10.8-1 compression and a cam with hardly any overlap. Care to guess what the dynamic is on that motor? Cam has 203/210 duration, intake valve closes 31 degrees ABDC. OOps, it has 10.29 dynamic. Those cars run on 91 octane as recommended by GM. Putting your car as an example doesn't mean you are right."


Acutally my motor was tuned while on an engine dyno, not in my backyard. If i wanted to change the tune then yes i could run on pump gas, but since i said it was tuned on a dyno i have seen first hand exactly what my motor wants and likes, we went through multiple combinations, between different carbs, intakes, timing... The setting we stuck with was the one that ran the most consistant over multiple pulls.


if you would actually read my posts to this guy, you would see that i am not telling him that this rear is strong, i have flat told him that it is the WEAK point in the build. Yes the ring gear is small is weak but a softer aftermarket ring gear can handle 400hp. i have offered him some ideas that will help make it a bit stronger. WHAT HAVE YOU HONESTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD BESIDES ATTEMP TO ATTACK ME as the OP has blatently stated, he is looking for 400hp, can you, me, and 500,000 other people tell him how to build way more than 400hp out of a 383, DAH but that is not what he has stated that HE WANTS

To the OP, I hope that is "bickering" back and forth between Joelster and I hasn't put a bad taste in your mouth about this site. I certainly hope that you continue to ask questions when the arrise. and I certainly hope that the advise you get is ment for what you are looking to do, not someone elses idea of fun.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
"Hrmm, that's funny, because 93 pump is all I run. My quench is .040, static is 11.77-1. My dynamic is right around 9.3-1 as well. My car only runs mid 10's at 130 though. I'm headed to the track saturday shooting for some 10.3's hopefully 10.2's at 131-132ish. But what do I know. I would say you probably have a tuning issue, too much timing, too lean or have WAY too hot of a plug to not be able to run pump. I know guys with 12.4-1 static engines with milder cams than mine that run pump and also run 10's. A bone-stock LT4 engine had 10.8-1 compression and a cam with hardly any overlap. Care to guess what the dynamic is on that motor? Cam has 203/210 duration, intake valve closes 31 degrees ABDC. OOps, it has 10.29 dynamic. Those cars run on 91 octane as recommended by GM. Putting your car as an example doesn't mean you are right."


Acutally my motor was tuned while on an engine dyno, not in my backyard. If i wanted to change the tune then yes i could run on pump gas, but since i said it was tuned on a dyno i have seen first hand exactly what my motor wants and likes, we went through multiple combinations, between different carbs, intakes, timing... The setting we stuck with was the one that ran the most consistant over multiple pulls.
Are you trying to tell me that a car will make more power on race gas than pump gas? Gee I didn't know that . How about oxygenated fuel like Q16? Will it run better with that? No s**t it dynoed better when you boosting the octane and added timing. You tried telling him this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by my87z
and no i can not run on only pump gas when i drive on the street i have to run 1gal of 110 for every 2gal of 91-93octane. now sure i could tune it and advance the timing so far that i could run on pump gas but i would also loose around 10% or my power getting there.
That's how YOU want to drive your car around. Fine with you. $15 a gallon gas can get old real quick. I'm sure I could run Q16 and get 30-40hp but my car is a street/strip car not a trailered race car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
if you would actually read my posts to this guy, you would see that i am not telling him that this rear is strong, i have flat told him that it is the WEAK point in the build. Yes the ring gear is small is weak but a softer aftermarket ring gear can handle 400hp. i have offered him some ideas that will help make it a bit stronger. WHAT HAVE YOU HONESTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD BESIDES ATTEMP TO ATTACK ME as the OP has blatently stated, he is looking for 400hp, can you, me, and 500,000 other people tell him how to build way more than 400hp out of a 383, DAH but that is not what he has stated that HE WANTS



To the OP, I hope that is "bickering" back and forth between Joelster and I hasn't put a bad taste in your mouth about this site. I certainly hope that you continue to ask questions when the arrise. and I certainly hope that the advise you get is ment for what you are looking to do, not someone elses idea of fun.
Nice way to make me out as the bad guy. Don't pm again either please.

You are defending the 7.625 saying how much better it is than a 7.5 when both are weak and prone to failure. That is very misleading to someone looking for info. I sold my stock rear with Richmond 3.73's to a friend of mine and he popped it at the track running 7.9's in the 1/8th. Richmonds are softer than stock. 10-bolts from 3rd and 4th gens are garbage for anything except cruising.

I offered solid info in post #13, then you countered in post #14 puffing your chest about your 11 second 3rd gen. Who attacked who? Here's what I posted, pay attention:

"If it's an '87+ block it should be a roller block. That would be a big plus. "
"They will have to clearance the sides for the stroker crankshaft. Down by the oil pan gasket."
"Iron heads will be cheap, but Vortec heads flow roughly 220cfm give or take a little, and will be adequate for a 383cube engine. I would put an aluminum head with a minimum of 195cc port that flows minimum of 250cfm. Something like this will do:"
"Excellent intake, can't go wrong with that. "
"It's better to buy everything as one package to save a few bucks. Try ohiocrank.com to see what packages they offer. Their cranks are made in the USA."
"With an aluminum head you can go much higher on the compression than that and sacrifice virtually nothing. I run 11.77-1 and run pump 93. It will run on 91 octane but I don't push it when I run it on that. Personally I would shoot for 10.5-1 to play it safe and still make power."
"That cam is very mild for a 383. Your hp goals are very low and I'm sure you'd probably hit them or be close with the parts you pick, but next year you may want more power. Just trying to save you on a teardown for next year!"

This is another thing I posted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelster
I just have a feeling he will be a little disappointed with those iron heads, when he understands that for a few hundred more he could make more power, run more compression, shed more weight and keep the motor cooler. While the motor is out and everything is easily accessible, spend the coin on some good parts. I'm not telling him to get some cnc'd $2500 set of heads. Just some bang-for-the-buck aluminum ones.
I'm not telling him to change his entire build, just the heads.

You act like I'm trying to change his whole build. I'm just offering advice from seeing a year or 2 down the road. I think he will want more power.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:38 AM
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@ Joelster have a good one buddy

@ The OP, i'm sorry that we've hijacked your thread man, i hope that you still got some valuable info between it all. feel free to ask questions and continue searching on this site as it is full of great informations and plenty of great people willing to help you.
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