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Old 06-14-2012, 08:25 PM
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Need help with first 383 build

Hi everyone. I'm new to these forums, I hope I'm not out of place. I will be swapping a bigger engine into my 92 Firebird. I have a chevy 350( 1 piece RMS, non roller, I'm pretty sure 87-up) block, making it a 383 stroker. I have all the stock parts that came off of it, but don't plan on using any of the parts I pulled off. When I take the block to be cleaned and all, I'm going to have them bore it to 4.030" and hone it out. I'm trying to get 400 hp out of this build. I plan on hooking up a T56 6spd and 3.73 posi rear to this engine. I've been talking to some people about parts to buy, but would like to get some second opinions and more help.

Right now, I have a lunati 60103 cam and the lifters that cam with the 60103LK kit and a holley 4150 double pumper 650 cfm mechanical secondary carb. But I'm still figuring the rest of my build.

What I plan on getting:
Heads: Modified vortechs, assembled to handle .600 lift. 64 cc http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...nter/sd8060ra2
Intake: Edelbrock performer rpm air gap http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7516/
Pistons: Probe 12344-030 forged dish, compression dist 1.425", +20.40cc http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PBP-12344-030/
Connect rods: SCAT 5.7" i-beam rods http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25700P/
Crankshaft: SCAT 9000 series, 3.750" stroke http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-935050L/

I also plan on zero decking this, getting a CR of 9.45:1 with head gasket thickness of .040". Just wanted to get as many opinions and/or advice as I could.

EDIT: Cam: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60103LK/
Carb: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-4777C/

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Old 06-14-2012, 11:04 PM
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Do a search here for 383 build, there is a kazillion of them and tons of information.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:44 AM
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skip the probe piston and just buy this kit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-B13004L03053/

i ran a similar rotating assembly up to 6500rpm and made over 500hp with it and never had any issues.

i would strongly suggest going with a hyd roller instead of the flat tappet cam. if you bought it from summit then i would bet that they would take the cam back and credit you toward the hyd roller cam. besides budget, there is pretty much no reason to go with a flat tappet cam anymore. you spend about $300.00 more for the roller valve train but yet you get considerable more power and longevity.

i personally would also ditch the 650 double pumper, it doesn't sound as if you will be using this more as a race car, so there is no real point in the mechanical secondaries. i would suggest getting a holley 3310 750 vac secondary carb.
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:34 AM
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383

what 87z said I kind of agree.What you have there will easily make 400 hp.I like double pump holleys and like roller cams.
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:47 AM
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i personally like double pumpers as well, but only if the vehicle is being built to do some racing too, if it is being built for mainly the street then the vac secondary carbs will save gas and are just more street friendly.
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Old 06-21-2012, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
i personally like double pumpers as well, but only if the vehicle is being built to do some racing too, if it is being built for mainly the street then the vac secondary carbs will save gas and are just more street friendly.
The block I have isn't machined to be a roller block. Also, if I used this carb and was just careful about the throttle it would still be fine for street use right? I ask that because I already had the carb and cam. I got them for a cheap price from a guy that was upgrading. The carb is a little used, cam is new of course.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:54 AM
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the block doesn't have to machined for a roller cam, they make retro-fit roller cams for these blocks, typically the only adjustments that are needed to be made are in the cam button/timing cover area.

yes you can absoutley use the 650DP on the street, I like the DP's. I just recomend the vaccum secondary carb because it will be easier to maintain for street use. I use a modified 750 double pumper on my street/strip car.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:39 PM
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Those Vortec heads typically are cast with 66-68cc combustion chambers. You are very unlikely to get a set with a true 64cc size. You will need to verify this with modeling clay or a burette. Assuming you go with those 20.40cc pistons, that mean your static CR is going to be 9.1-9.2:1. You could send the heads to a machine shop and they can deck them a little to reduce chamber size, but it is probably easier and just as cheap to get some different pistons from the get go. The 18cc pistons in the kit as suggested by my87Z would get to you to 9.3-9.4:1. Are you trying to run on 87 octane? With a nice tight quench from that zero deck and .040" head gasket, you can get more compression with less timing advance and detonation (thus be able to use lower octane).

I think you should probably bump that CR up a little bit to match the cam, and also more compression = more power: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._compatibility

In my estimation with your setup on that low 9ish:1 compression you should be knocking on the door at 400HP. I have a desktop dyno and will plug the numbers in later and send you a PM.

A roller cam and roller rockers would help achieve your power goals. But the cost of roller cam, retro-roller lifters, correct length pushrods aint cheap! And do you really want to top off that roller setup with factory stamped steel rockers? Heck no!
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:30 PM
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Here are the numbers from Desktop Dyno 2003. There was not a supplied file for this cam, nor does it seem that Lunati publishes their valve timings like Comp Cams does. I figure this cam is pretty comparable to the Comp Camps XE268 cam so I started with that and edited the few known values that are published for this cam.

You are looking at
365 HP @ 5,000 RPM
425 ft/lbs @ 4,000 RPM
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer
Here are the numbers from Desktop Dyno 2003. There was not a supplied file for this cam, nor does it seem that Lunati publishes their valve timings like Comp Cams does. I figure this cam is pretty comparable to the Comp Camps XE268 cam so I started with that and edited the few known values that are published for this cam.

You are looking at
365 HP @ 5,000 RPM
425 ft/lbs @ 4,000 RPM


I think this is a little conservitive, but not too far off. I would expect to see about about 380hp/430tq.

I took another look at those heads and since they are already 399.99 a piece i would suggest skipping them and going with these;

http://www.competitionproducts.com/R...fo/RHS12317K1/

you are going to spend basically the same exact amount for a pair a of heads that will out perform the crap out of those vortec heads. right off the bat you would be looking at 20-25hp, due to the improved flow + velocity they produce and the extra .2-.3 of compression would you get out of them (if the vortecs are 66-68cc).

I would also recomend you jump to a slightly larger cam (if you refuse to go with a roller) such as this one;

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-114561/

do not use 1.6 rockers with these though, i would only use 1.5 rockers.

the cam i suggested with the RHS heads, as well as the kit i suggested would get you into the 425hp/450tq range. you will want to run an aftermarket stall with this cam though, around 2800. the cam says that it's band starts at 3000rpm but that is in a 350, in a 383 the band will start at about 2400rpm.
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:28 PM
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Sorry about not replying. Been a little busy. I just got the block back from the machine shop, they bored it .030 over but there was still a problem in the #2 cylinder so it went to .040. So looks like it'll be a 385. They also ground the deck down because it was in bad shape. He said he took .015" off, which should leave me around 9.010" deck. I didn't tell them to zero deck it because I didn't know what exactly I was putting in yet. After looking into the kit that my87z recommended, I decided to go with the Eagle kit. But I was thinking this one:

Eagle Specialty Products B13054L040 - Eagle Street and Strip Rotating Assemblies - Overview - SummitRacing.com

I think they're the same except balance type. With this, I should have .002" clearance. And also, I expecting around 9.68:1 CR. But that was assuming 64cc with the vortechs. So if they're not 64cc, that kind of sucks. I was looking for like 9.3-9.7 CR. I'll definitely look into those heads, my87z. Thanks.

Quote:
I would also recomend you jump to a slightly larger cam
Now about the cam, I see that the lift numbers are a little bigger on the Lunati and that the adv and .050 duration is larger on the Crane. But in comparing those 2, what set the Crane one above the Lunati to you? Just curious.
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Old 07-01-2012, 03:56 PM
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i had to go back and look at both cams to see why i would have recomended the crane cam over the lunati cam. I'm actually a bit suprised that i recomended a crane cam, there is nothing wrong with them they are of a very good quality i just dont look at them very often, i think i picked it solely due to it's profile.

the crane cam has a bit more duration which the 385 will like, the lunati has a tad bit more lift but that isn't enough to be felt. the reason i picked the crane cam is because it's ramp rates are a lot more friendly on a hyd flat tappet valvetrain then the lunati cam's ramp rate. your ramp rate in laymens terms is the difference in duration @ .050 and the advertised duration.
ex. crane cam: 234°-296° which is a difference of 62°, this is basically how fast the valve opens and closes.
lunati cam: 227°-268° which is a defference of 41°, this means that on the lunati cam the valve will be opening and closing (.000"-.489"-.000") in 2/3rds the time of the crane cam. 41° difference is absically what you will see on a solid flat tappet cam and is VERY aggressive. which an aggressive ramp rate means extra stress on the rest of the valvetrain.

now the crane cam acutally has more of a slow ramp rate, 62° is a good bit. if i were to build another hyd flat tappet 383 then i would look for a ramp rate in the 50° range. here are a few that i like a bit better than the crane cam, and i certainly like them better than the lunati cam.

COMP Cams 12-212-2 - COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Lunati 00010 - Lunati Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

this one would probably be my choice, i am a big fan of howards valvetrain products, i have been using them for quite a while with absolutly no problems and their customer service is second to none.

Howards Cams 112141-10 - Howards Cams Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

and as i mentioned before, i wouldn't go with the scoggin dicky vortec heads for 800.00 when the 180cc RHS pro action heads are the same price and are proven to flow better and flat out perform better.

the Eagle kit you chose is just fine, i've used the 4.030" kit before and it worked great for me. if you match the howards cam, a nice performer rpm intake, a simple holley 750 vac sec carb, cheap HEI distributor (60K volt), with those RHS heads, and a decent set of headers and exhaust then you will be sitting in the 410-425hp rane but the kicker will be the 440-460tq you will make, all while using pump gas.
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Old 07-01-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanphelps321 View Post
Hi everyone. I'm new to these forums, I hope I'm not out of place. I will be swapping a bigger engine into my 92 Firebird. I have a chevy 350( 1 piece RMS, non roller, I'm pretty sure 87-up) block, making it a 383 stroker.
If it's an '87+ block it should be a roller block. That would be a big plus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanphelps321 View Post
I have all the stock parts that came off of it, but don't plan on using any of the parts I pulled off. When I take the block to be cleaned and all, I'm going to have them bore it to 4.030" and hone it out. I'm trying to get 400 hp out of this build. I plan on hooking up a T56 6spd and 3.73 posi rear to this engine. I've been talking to some people about parts to buy, but would like to get some second opinions and more help.
They will have to clearance the sides for the stroker crankshaft. Down by the oil pan gasket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanphelps321 View Post
Right now, I have a lunati 60103 cam and the lifters that cam with the 60103LK kit and a holley 4150 double pumper 650 cfm mechanical secondary carb. But I'm still figuring the rest of my build.

What I plan on getting:
Heads: Modified vortechs, assembled to handle .600 lift. 64 cc Scoggin Dickey Parts Center SD8060RA2 - SB Chevrolet Vortec Cylinder Head w/ 0.600 Springs for Roller Cams | SDParts - 1-800-456-0211
Iron heads will be cheap, but Vortec heads flow roughly 220cfm give or take a little, and will be adequate for a 383cube engine. I would put an aluminum head with a minimum of 195cc port that flows minimum of 250cfm. Something like this will do:

Summit Racing SUM-162112 - Summit Racing Street & Strip® Cylinder Heads for Small Chevy - Overview - SummitRacing.com


Quote:
Originally Posted by seanphelps321 View Post
Excellent intake, can't go wrong with that.
It's better to buy everything as one package to save a few bucks. Try ohiocrank.com to see what packages they offer. Their cranks are made in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanphelps321 View Post
I also plan on zero decking this, getting a CR of 9.45:1 with head gasket thickness of .040". Just wanted to get as many opinions and/or advice as I could.
With an aluminum head you can go much higher on the compression than that and sacrifice virtually nothing. I run 11.77-1 and run pump 93. It will run on 91 octane but I don't push it when I run it on that. Personally I would shoot for 10.5-1 to play it safe and still make power.

That cam is very mild for a 383. Your hp goals are very low and I'm sure you'd probably hit them or be close with the parts you pick, but next year you may want more power. Just trying to save you on a teardown for next year!
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:42 PM
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@ Joelster,

many 87' and up sbc blocks were roller but most trucks still came with a hyd flat tappet cam until 92-93' when they started making the first vortec sbc's. they were the ones with the swirl port heads, not the 906/062 vortecs that we all know today.

then you go into telling him to go after building a motor that will be pushing out 450-470hp which his 92' firebird wont hold up to very well. the 400hp goal he has is pretty much right where he wants to be unless he wants to start spending big $$$$ on setting the car up to handle it.

take a look at my profile name, My87z, and ask me how i know. that Z doesn't stand for and old datsun or nissan, it stands for Z-28. my most recent build has me running very low 11.0-11.15" and trust me when you exclude the motor i still have well over 10,000 into the car (not including the purchase price)
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Old 07-01-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
@ Joelster,

many 87' and up sbc blocks were roller but most trucks still came with a hyd flat tappet cam until 92-93' when they started making the first vortec sbc's. they were the ones with the swirl port heads, not the 906/062 vortecs that we all know today.

then you go into telling him to go after building a motor that will be pushing out 450-470hp which his 92' firebird wont hold up to very well. the 400hp goal he has is pretty much right where he wants to be unless he wants to start spending big $$$$ on setting the car up to handle it.
350hp will grenade a factory 7.5" rearend. 400hp that he is shooting for will pop it in a second. He will need a new driveshaft as well, then the flimsy factory stamped-steel torque arm will have to go, not to mention the stamped lower control arms.

I just have a feeling he will be a little disappointed with those iron heads, when he understands that for a few hundred more he could make more power, run more compression, shed more weight and keep the motor cooler. While the motor is out and everything is easily accessible, spend the coin on some good parts. I'm not telling him to get some cnc'd $2500 set of heads. Just some bang-for-the-buck aluminum ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
take a look at my profile name, My87z, and ask me how i know. that Z doesn't stand for and old datsun or nissan, it stands for Z-28. my most recent build has me running very low 11.0-11.15" and trust me when you exclude the motor i still have well over 10,000 into the car (not including the purchase price)
I have owned 6 Z-28's ('79, '80, '87 IROC, '91 G92 350, '94, and '95), so you aren't telling me anything I don't already know. My current Z-28 runs 10.5's on pump gas, in street trim. I know all of the weak links in a 3rd and 4th gen. 400hp will find them too.
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