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Old 09-02-2007, 05:23 AM
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need help with mockup

any idea how far the cowl should be from the radiator frame?
im trying to mockup the parts, so i can modify them to fit, etc

the chassis has a different curve in it to the cowl base, but i will shape the cowl base to suit
also, should the radiater be angled or straight up?
cheers
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Old 09-02-2007, 04:54 PM
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measure with the hood. The hood determine the distance. If the hood front edge is straight, then the radiator support should be straight.

If you aren't using the hood, or inner fenders, then use the engine to measure. You want to have sufficient space from the water pump fan and radiator.

Frank
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:13 PM
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Is that a Buick? It looks an awful lot like one, but many of the cars of the day looked similar. Anyway, you know where to put that rad shell and lights, and everything else? It is simple, WHERE IT LOOKS GOOD! You WILL need to have the motor in the car WITH the rad and water pump and all, have the steering installed, the EVERYTHING before you make up your mind. A quarter inch right now could mean a MILE down the road.

But honestly, you REALLY need to "mock" it up, with the axle and wheels on, the motor in the car, everything, sitting at the ride height you want, the whole deal. THEN you roll the thing out where you can stand back and look at it from a number of angles, THAT is how you find out where something like that goes, and NOTHING less.

Brian

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Old 09-03-2007, 02:01 AM
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MARTINSR has given you good advice on how to mock up your project.

Also go back and take a look at the carnut site at other Dodge highboys and see how they were built and proportioned. You could also look at other makes of "highboys" on that site to help you make some decisions. One thing to look at is how the lines from the cowl flow to the radiator, that will give you an idea how high to place the top of it and whether you will want to slant it.

I just noticed from your last post that you are wondering about doing modifications to a Dodge chassis. It looks like you only have the front half of a frame in the picture - is that correct? It would help us to know what pieces you want to use to build your project. Pics would help as well.
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:32 AM
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thanks for replying.
i have a front half of a chassis here, but have a full chassis at my dads house. both chassis and also our 1923 dodge we restored has the same curves in the chassis, yet this cowl has a "strait" base edge
i was going to do all the mockup on the half chassis as its easier to move around, etc
i dont have a axle yet for this chassis, or front springs, so untill i get them i cant mount the motor, as i want to be shure of the sump clearence on the steering arms etc
the motor im intending to use is a gmh 253 with a single rail borg warner
there is still heaps i can do yet, like getting a radiator made to suit the houseing, as the original dodge radiator is way off shape for the inlets, etc
what id prefere to do is to make the body a single seater, with prehaps a rodster back, but other then that, i dont have any ideas yet. this is the first hotrod ive started on, everything else we have done has been restored
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:27 AM
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A Dodge, I looked at the photo of the my brothers Buick body in the bare and damn they look alike! Reminds me of when we were searching high and low for his body with want ads in Hemmings and such, we would get people with Dodges sending us photos.

VERY cool car, when I was a kid there was a hot rodder around the corner from us who had a friend with a '17 or so turtle deck looking roadster. Even as a kid I could see how special they were with that frame and how it hugged the shape of the cowl unlike all the Fords with the straight sided frame.

Anyway, the ONLY solid, "given" is the space between the firewall and the motor, that is the start. With the body bolted on, place the motor in it's place, leaving the desired room behind the motor. Depending on the motor mounts used, a quarter inch to a inch or so. In other words, "early Ford biscuit" mounts (the "standard" of rodding no matter what car you are building) leave very little movement of the motor for and aft as well as sideways. Where a modern mount has much more. After you have that space, the rest is ALL up to how it looks ALONG with how it works.

If you are building a Ford, this is all straight forward, look at the zillions of them, and just bolt it together. But with something like your Dodge and the fact that you are building a highboy, it is mostly about WHAT LOOKS GOOD.

Even the location of the front axle could be moved fore and aft a little if you wanted. Using stock springs or custom ones with the thru bolt in the stock place. You can drill the hole in the axle/spring pad fore or aft, just a half inch can make a BIG difference. On my brothers roadster, we shaved the axle pads to lower it a quarter inch. It actually had three sets of new front springs on it, and three sets of new front tires on it before settling on the ones you see. The grille shell and rad was moved up and down, and clamped into place a number of times before deciding on where it is. The headlamps were moved back and forth up and down (temp clamped in place) a dozen or more times. The height of the motor was changed a number of times, the windshield was leaned back a couple different places, and the height mocked up a number of different places, all before it was finalized. And all these changes where viewed from a distance with the car out of the shop, standing back and looking at it from different angles.

Again, this is YOUR car, YOUR creation, YOUR "art", stand back like an artist would and put everything EXACTLY how YOU want it to look it's best.

Brian
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Old 09-03-2007, 10:45 AM
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And by the way, I just wanted to add another "warning", mocking this thing up with ALL important parts like waterpump and fan on the motor, distributor, headers and steering in, is VERY important. You can't believe how many times I have seen guys build a car and go to bolt things on in the end finishing the car and finding they don't fit!!!! I am not kidding, if you take ANYTHING for granted, you are likely to be bit in the butt!

I remember helping a friend bolt together his fully painted, chromed, 6-71 blown 327 in a Chopped top 39 Chevy sedan. We were installing brand new cad plated headers only to find that they wouldn't go on! They were hitting the frame! He had to scrap them and put on exhaust manifolds! How about the steering, I am not kidding you, the same guy, about ten or fifteen years previous to that, we were final bolting together a 29 Highboy again a 6-71 blowner on a 392 Hemi this time. We were putting together the chromed front axle and spindles to find that the friggin tie rod hit the oil pan or something, I don't remember what! My brother is right now finishing a 29 Model A sedan with a 401 Nailhead in it for a customer. He had the motor installed elsewhere. Now, this is some REAL nice looking work, beautiful tig welds, just beautiful work. One problem, they didn't mock up the rad! There was no room for the friggin pullys!!!! The guys set the thing up, rad and all, without the friggin water pump on the motor!!! Another friend of mine was building a 32 3W highboy. He had the 429 (?) Cad motor installed along with the frame boxed and an X member installed at a nearby "Big shot" streetrod shop. It was understood that he was using the stock floor along with this stunning original body. We got the frame back, set the body on the frame and the friggin floor hit the X member an inch before the body hit the frame rails!

MOCK UP EVERYTHING, it is NOT wasted time, it is time VERY well spent.
AND, stand back and look at it.

I hope it doesn't look like I am yelling, I am simple putting caps to emphasize important points.

Brian
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:06 AM
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some intresting points there

i had totally fergot about clearance for water pump.
id like to get the mock up done shortly, so i can plan what parts i need, etc
id never thought there was so mutch difference between restoring and "hotting up" cars. im always reading about car builds takeing 10 years or more, and always thought bull****, but just today trying to get the cowl lined up took a few hours. i work afternoons so i only get couple of hours to do all the noisy work, then when i get home around midnight, i can only do minor things incase i wake the family
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