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Old 07-18-2008, 10:36 PM
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Need Help with more HP from 434sbc

Hello everyone!I just found this site and see it is a very informative place.I could really use your expert help!I have a sbc 434 with Pro 1 dart 230's flowing 310 In/250 Exh at .750 lift,4"stroke 6"rod,eagle rotating assembly with JE dome pistons,about 12.8 compression,cam lift is 284/286 at 112 and734/704,1050 dom with Dart Ported 4150 intake,1 7/8 hedder,vacuum pump,and belt drive.The motor made 670hp and 588tq at 6800 rpm.I'm in the process of refreshening it and was wondering what could i do to make more hp and torque!I've seen smaller motors make more power than mine!Thanks for your advice in advance!

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Last edited by killacamaro; 07-21-2008 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killacamaro
Hello everyone!I just found this site and see it is a very informative place.I could really use your expert help!I have a sbc 434 with Pro 1 dart 230's flowing 230 In/250 Exh at 7500,4"stroke 6"rod,eagle rotating assembly with JE dome pistons,about 12.8 compression,cam lift is 284/286 at 112 and704/734,1050 dom with Dart Ported 4150 intake,1 7/8 hedder,vacuum pump,and belt drive.The motor made 670hp and 588tq at 6800 rpm.I'm in the process of refreshening it and was wondering what could i do to make more hp and torque!I've seen smaller motors make more power than mine!Thanks for your advice in advance!
In my experience with building big cubic inch SBF engines, the main difference I see in your combo vs. some of the ones I have built is in the cylinder heads. The intake runners on most of the heads I have used flow at least 300 CFM, and have been as much as 330-ish. The compression was also a little higher on some of my combos, but 12.8 as you have is a good starting point....
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:31 PM
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I meant 310 on Intake sorry about mistake!
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:54 PM
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-What is the application?
Looks like a drag motor.

-Have you experimented with a spacer under the carb on the dyno? Sometimes and inch or so is all you need to pick up another 20 HP on the top end.

-What size are your collectors? How long are they? Sometimes adjusting the length and diameter of these components are worth the effort to experiment.

-What different cams have you tried? How about header lengths?

The gods live in the details and lots of time on the dyno trying out different components are likely the difference between the higher output engines you have seen and your setup.

Looks like you have a solid setup that doesn't break, go slow and test with back up runs on the dyno to verify the changes actually made a difference and weren't a fluke.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
-What is the application?
Looks like a drag motor.

-Have you experimented with a spacer under the carb on the dyno? Sometimes and inch or so is all you need to pick up another 20 HP on the top end.

-What size are your collectors? How long are they? Sometimes adjusting the length and diameter of these components are worth the effort to experiment.

-What different cams have you tried? How about header lengths?

The gods live in the details and lots of time on the dyno trying out different components are likely the difference between the higher output engines you have seen and your setup.

Looks like you have a solid setup that doesn't break, go slow and test with back up runs on the dyno to verify the changes actually made a difference and weren't a fluke.
1.Yes it's a drag setup.
2.Yes i have experimented with different spacers.Currently have 2"hvh(8hp)
3. Collectors r 3.5 and no I have not tried different lengths because the 2 dyno shops didn't have any to try!
4.Have not tried any different cams or header lengths! None were available either!
5.I do have about 52 dyno pulls on this motor at 2 different dyno locations. With 3 seperate occasions!

Thanks very much for your advice!
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Old 07-21-2008, 05:01 AM
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ttt Any body else have any answers?
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:19 PM
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ON a big small block cylinder heads are what limits you, along with the intake. You may pick up some power switching to a ported Dart 4500 intake along with a Dominator. Plenum volume is the reason.

The best way to make BIG power with this size small block is to switch to a 17, 15, or even 12 degree cylinder head. Something like an SB2, or All Pro. Depending on the selection you would increase runner size into the 280cc range (although slightly misleading due to the longer port) but pick flow up close to the 390 range. Horsepower will likely pick up in the 100 range and your upper RPM band will be extended to a considerable degree.

Last edited by Rick WI; 07-21-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
ON a big small block cylinder heads are what limits you, along with the intake. You may pick up some power switching to a ported Dart 4500 intake along with a Dominator. Plenum volume is the reason.

The best way to make BIG power with this size small block is to switch to a 17, 15, or even 12 degree cylinder head. Something like an SB2, or All Pro. Depending on the selection you would increase runner size into the 280cc range (although slightly misleading due to the longer port) but pick flow up close to the 390 range. Horsepower will likely pick up in the 100 range and your upper RPM band will be extended to a considerable degree.
I Appreciate the info Rick! I agree with u on the different degree of head,but I was trying to work this combo with this 23degree head.I just seen a 461 Sb2.2 on the dyno make 950hp!However it will get torn down every 10 to 20 runs!I believe if I should be able to make 700-720 with my motor without a head swap and not have to change springs or other parts every other day!Thanks for info!
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:48 PM
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As I'm sure you know even with your current setup I suspect the valvetrain is something that you like to "scratch" every season. Springs, lifter and rockers take a beating with .700 lift. I don't think you are doing bad at all with those heads. From a camshaft standpoint regrinding a cam on something in the 106 LDA would make for much more of a responsive engine. I ran a 114 in my 454 small block for nitrous and have quickly gone back to 110. I don't run enough compression to pull back to a 108 or 106 and still be somewhat streetable.

The 250 exhaust flow is very strong with your 300 intake flow. Might be able to pull back on lift and duration and it may respond to that better. If you know someone with Engine Analyzer that is an excellent program to put all your data in and run some option. If your heads were flowed with the intake that's very important info to have.

Lot's of used old Bush stuff and Winston West stuff around from time to time.
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
As I'm sure you know even with your current setup I suspect the valvetrain is something that you like to "scratch" every season. Springs, lifter and rockers take a beating with .700 lift. I don't think you are doing bad at all with those heads. From a camshaft standpoint regrinding a cam on something in the 106 LDA would make for much more of a responsive engine. I ran a 114 in my 454 small block for nitrous and have quickly gone back to 110. I don't run enough compression to pull back to a 108 or 106 and still be somewhat streetable.

The 250 exhaust flow is very strong with your 300 intake flow. Might be able to pull back on lift and duration and it may respond to that better. If you know someone with Engine Analyzer that is an excellent program to put all your data in and run some option. If your heads were flowed with the intake that's very important info to have.

Lot's of used old Bush stuff and Winston West stuff around from time to time.
Appreciate the response Rick!The reason I use the 112 LDA is because I am spraying a 250 shot sometimes! I just didn't want to get on a Nos subject also!I have been 8.68 with the nos.My goal with the 23deg on stock suspension is a 8.40/30!I have had my intake flowed with the heads and if flowed (91%).The guy said that was pretty good and the best he seen was around 95/96%.
How much hp and tq did u make with 454?How fast have u been on motor and spray?Why did u drop back down from 114LDA?Thanks once again Buddy
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:31 PM
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Put a roller cam in it to help with the HP.

I have basically the same motor & heads and yes its a full roller w/110 LDA
w/6"rods flat top pistons 12:1 compression, Weiand cross ram w/2 Holley DP 650's w/annular boosters.
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Old 07-22-2008, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 1BAD80
Put a roller cam in it to help with the HP.

I have basically the same motor & heads and yes its a full roller w/110 LDA
w/6"rods flat top pistons 12:1 compression, Weiand cross ram w/2 Holley DP 650's w/annular boosters.
It does have a roller!
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killacamaro
It does have a roller!
Has anyone seen a difference with light weight rotating assemblies?What about coating engine parts?Thanks,Killacamaro
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