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Need help powering bead roller

11K views 22 replies 12 participants last post by  tech69 
#1 ·
I believe this motor will work okay to power my bead roller. It's still mounted on the frame of the machine, and has the controler on it. I don't know exactly what the machine was, but it wasn't a treadmill. The shaft is 7/8, and at full speed turns at just under 24 rpm. Now I'm not real good at math, but I think that would give me just under 67 inches a minute at top speed. Sound right? So do I need to implement sprockets and chain, or could I just couple it straight to the shaft with a lovejoy coupling? Also, can this motor be made to reverse, and if so how? I'm thinking for starting and stopping, a simple on/off foot control would work.



 
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#3 ·
That motor geared to a max of 24 rpm should be great for direct coupling to a bead roller.

You can reverse a DC motor like that one by reversing the polarity. That can be done with a double pole double throw toggle switch for about 10 bucks. Its best to not reverse the motor while running as DC current will arc much more than AC and fry the contacts in your switch pretty quickly.

FWIW, a Baldor motor like that one with a right angle gearbox and control is way over $1000, so that was a great find. No comparison between that one and one of the cheapo motor/gearbox rigs found in treadmills.
 
#4 ·
I believe this motor will work okay to power my bead roller. It's still mounted on the frame of the machine, and has the controler on it. I don't know exactly what the machine was, but it wasn't a treadmill. The shaft is 7/8, and at full speed turns at just under 24 rpm. Now I'm not real good at math, but I think that would give me just under 67 inches a minute at top speed. Sound right? So do I need to implement sprockets and chain, or could I just couple it straight to the shaft with a lovejoy coupling? Also, can this motor be made to reverse, and if so how? I'm thinking for starting and stopping, a simple on/off foot control would work.
If it is a DC motor can you use a variable speed control? An inch plus per second is just a little faster than you are going to want for tight radiuses.

On my crude setup I have to "pump" the switch to slow it down. It is awkward but you learn to live with what you have.

Good luck,
John
 
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#6 ·
Pretty sure that's an AC motor, runs on 90 V.

Now for my rant! If your using a computer why don't you do a search on google, or better yet You tube. Here's what I found in .5 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=putting+a+motor+on+a+bead+roller
I think your rant is unfair Evolvo. Train asked about a particular motor, speed, and control. If it is not a subject any of us want to discuss, we have the option to ignore it and move on.

Having powered my own bead roller in rather a crude way, I am very interested in what train has come up with and what his options are. It will be interesting to see what he ends up doing with it.

John
 
#7 ·
With that much reduction and the motor orientation its obviously a worm drive, seems like lots of torque available with 1/2 HP. Reversing it would best be done with a VFD so you could slow it down if required, not cheap though. I would be tempted to vee belt drive it as a safety if it jams, also give you some gearing options and be cheap to fabricate.

Nice find!
 
#9 ·
I think I'd gear this down a bit more. It a big drive system so id mount it low on the stand so it's out of the way. You could get about 3:1 additional reduction using over the counter Vee belt drive. You will have way more power than you need. You can easily change ratios with pulleys. Getting fancy you could get step pulleys and have you cake too.

It's a great find, most of us can only dream about. Most small bead rollers only use tiny gear motors, even sewing machine motors. You will need a variable speed foot controller but these are pretty cheep too.
 
#12 ·
Its a DC motor. Plainly says so in the nameplate.

The OP says he has the controller. A DC motor controller gives him speed control so there's no need to rig up pulleys or gears or sprockets or anything else. In industrial situations where this motor would typically be used, DC motors are only used when variable speed is needed. Constant speed always uses AC motors because they're cheaper and more reliable over the long run.

VFD's are used on AC motors.

I have no idea what a "commercial 3 way switch" is since there's at least a dozen or more variations of 3 positions switches available. But, to reverse a DC motor, you use a double pole, double throw, center off toggle switch.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...3evFA=&biw=1366&bih=659#imgrc=EhmD2a79-frHxM:

shows how to wire the switch. This is wired into the DC power circuit to the motor and not into the incoming AC power.
 
#13 ·
That switch technique only works with permanent magnet field motors. To reverse a series wound motor you have to reverse either the armature or the field but not both. You also have to make sure the switch will handle the motor current. Relays are commonly used between the switch and the motor.
 
#14 ·
That switch technique only works with permanent magnet field motors.
Uh-huh. That's why you read the nameplate in the OP's pic and see that it is a PM motor.

You also have to make sure the switch will handle the motor current. Relays are commonly used between the switch and the motor.
Once again, from the nameplate, full load is 4.8A. For use on a bead roller you wouldn't expect to switch under load, so oversizing the switch isn't necessary. Switches that will handle 5A @ 90 VDC are about as difficult to find as a loaf of bread.
 
#15 ·
Now for a long post. First. Sorry for not replying to my own thread but stuff happens. I wanted to wait until I had the motor and could get some of my own pictures of stuff. Secondly. I've never understood the logic to the response, "why don't you google it?". I can stand toe to toe in any argument, on the web or in person, even if I'm wrong. But I've seen stuff like that cause people to leave forums. Hate to see that.

So I was originally going to copy John Longs' idea, but for some reason, used garage door openers around here go for stupid money. And being "frugal" like John, that wasn't going to happen. So I was, going to use the drill idea that Deadbodyman mentioned, until this motor came up. I got it for six dollars. (Canadian) It was on some sort of physical rehab machine that was taking up space in a guys garage. Yes it came with the controler. Right now it goes from 24 rpm max, to "are you sure it's moving". And, those rates seem to be adjustable.



So the last picture shows adjustments for max speed, minimum speed, torque, and IR comp. I have no idea what IR Comp means. Playing with the controler, I found the timer can be locked so it runs indefinitely, and you can turn the power off and on, instead of setting the timer each time. I thought I'd run this foot switch between the wall and the AC power cord. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0...d-0dc7-4f64-beca-b1a9f89477f6&pf_rd_i=desktop Any problems here? And would this deadman style be better, or an on/off type?

Now questions for Tubetek. Please bear with me. Are you saying to insert the reversing switch between the two output wires on the back of the controller, and the input on the motor?
So then on this switch in the picture, the input would be the two middle terminals, and the brown and blue wires they used would go to the motor, correct?

One last question for you. Would this switch work? https://www.amazon.ca/Gardner-Bende...ywords=double+pole+double+throw+toggle+switch The product description says 20 amps at 125 ac, or 12 volt dc. That doesn't seem enough to me because of the 90 v on the motor plate, but I can't find anything rated higher. What is clear to me is that a momentary switch is not what I want.
 
#16 ·
Now questions for Tubetek. Please bear with me. Are you saying to insert the reversing switch between the two output wires on the back of the controller, and the input on the motor?
So then on this switch in the picture, the input would be the two middle terminals, and the brown and blue wires they used would go to the motor, correct?

One last question for you. Would this switch work? https://www.amazon.ca/Gardner-Bende...ywords=double+pole+double+throw+toggle+switch The product description says 20 amps at 125 ac, or 12 volt dc. That doesn't seem enough to me because of the 90 v on the motor plate, but I can't find anything rated higher. What is clear to me is that a momentary switch is not what I want.
Haven't been on here in a while. The switch you linked to on Amazon will work fine because you're not reversing the motor under power.

The DC current and voltage ratings on switches are based on switching a load under power. DC arcs much worse than AC under load, but when the switch is made it will carry the load with no problem. Basically, you're just using the switch to rewire the motor to reverse the polarity and not using it to switch power off or on.

On the switch you linked, you would hook power leads from controller to the center terminals. Then you would X across the two pairs of end terminals like the connections in your pic. And tie one set of outer terminals to the motor. Doesn't matter which end you tie to the motor, either will perform the same reversing function.

The foot pedal you linked should also work well in this application. You're switching the power on the AC side, which is the proper way to do it.
 
#17 ·
Train, I think the motor you have come up with is far superior to my garage door opener and I am pleased for you.

Just in case someone else is looking around, My door opener was on EBAY for something like 35 bucks with free shipping. There were several on there when I was looking. With that said, I like Mike's idea of the drill motor too. It comes already set up to reverse and also ready for a resistive speed control. I suspect a sewing machine foot pedal would work but would have to check what it's load limits and resistance are.

Keep us posted on your progress.

John
 
#18 ·
just a heads up

it might be a 22 mm shaft and not 7/8" for the dies, and 25 mm on the bigger part of the shaft and not 1". I always hear mine is the same as HF and eastwood but if that's the case, I hear everybody saying it's 7/8" and 1" on the bigger end, but they are not. Pretty important if you're getting shaft collars or getting washers. I'd also skip getting standard washers and get a couple 22mm washers and a couple 2 piece 25 mm shaft collars. You can then weld the old shaft collars to them and have enough width so you can adjust your dies in and out on the shaft without having to rely on washers. If you have embossing dies or dial indicator you can see that washers are not straight, but the shaft collar is. Just put shaft collars tightly around the two you weld together and it should stay nice as you weld it.
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the help Tubetech. I'll order what I need now, but think I'll go with the deadman style foot pedal instead of the step on/step off type I was going to use.

John, if I hadn't found this motor, I'd definitely go with the reversible variable speed drill. I just happened to find this by accident on a bidding site and thought I'd check it out because it was so cheap.

Tech69, the shaft on the motor is definitely 7/8". The shafts on my bead roller, I haven't measured but when I do I'll bet they're metric.
 
#23 ·
I'm not sure about yours, but on the woodward fab they are metric, both sizes of the shaft. people seem to think HF, Eastwood, Woodward fab are all the same shaft sizes. I don't know if they are for sure but people who make dies for my roller advertise them as being for all 3 bead rollers, so I'm not sure. I just know on the woodward fab site they clearly state it being metric as well as the measurement I took with a mic. for a motor it might not make a difference but for shaft collars and making dies it's certainly an important aspect.
 
#21 · (Edited)
foot pedal start and speed

A dc motor usually uses a PWM controller. Pulse width modulator, there is some info on all metal shaping or metal meet showing how to make a foot pedal . they were using a tread mill DC motor and the tread mill control board. The treadmills usually have a start switch that you have to turn on each time before the tread mill turns as a safety feature. There are videos on modifying the circuit board to defeat the safety switch so the total controll is with the foot switch for start and speed controll. most videos are generic about cutting traces on the pc board and soldering in a 10 K pot to control one of the larger transistors or what ever on the heatsink. I don't know if an old sewing machine foot pedal would work ? ? It might need more components soldered to the pcb It looks like your speed control pot is less than one turn so building a foot a pedal should be easy.
 
#22 ·
I think for now the controls on this are fine. Just need to add the reverse switch and the foot pedal to control the AC from the wall. Even when you have the speed turned up, the motor ramps up when it's powered up. I still haven't found out what this was to begin with, but it wasn't a treadmill. Some kind of therapeutic machine. The way it's set up now it has a lot of torque. I've grabbed on to the moving platform of this thing (motor's still attached to the frame) and can't even come close to stopping it with everything I've got.
 
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