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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2010, 09:32 AM
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In less than a day, I've had two threads locked, the first on HERE, the second one HERE.

These threads were locked for what I consider a less-than-legitimate reason (a PM indicated that "the first thread was locked because you and the other member were getting no where except disagreement."). Well, what about the second thread? What did IT violate??

EDIT- Despite not respecting the mod involved (respect is a two way street- it needs to be shown in order for it to be given- and so far it has not been shown towards me by Crosby, as seen HERE, post #5 and beyond), I still submit that the ball was dropped.

There is no reason I can see to lock ANY thread w/o due cause. The second thread was in no violation of a single thing, except that a mod apparently took exception to me re-opening the dialog. This is not moderation, it is censorship, IMO.

There have been threads on Hotrodders Forum- that are still- open that go on for pages w/vehement disagreement on a myriad of subjects- rust removal, thermostats, small block vs. big block, torque vs. HP, etc. ad infinitum. These threads almost w/o exception were allowed to run their course. The only result was a lot of good info was brought to light.

Now, if there were cussing, over the top rhetoric, or conduct outside of the rules of the forum- I could understand a thread being locked.

But I submit that in THIS case, there was no such misconduct. Green and I could certainly have been said to have been in disagreement, but so the heck what? There's often a lot of GOOD info that a heated debate brings to the fore- even though this was FAR from a "heated" debate. There wasn't even time for anyone ELSE w/an opinion to weigh in before the thread was locked.

What I am asking, is in YOUR opinion (and leaving individual personalities out of it) did these threads "deserve" to be locked?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:55 AM
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Well it appears to me that the mod may have viewed the discussion as going no were since he referred to it as a "dead horse", his point being that since there is a written way and then the real world way that you two could debate this forever and still come to no conclusion. The second thread being closed may have been just to stick to his guns since it was of the same topic as the first and he is shooting for a consistent approach right or wrong. I do not know the guide lines of the forum, can a thread be closed if it is deemed to be forever inconclusive? I have seen other threads locked when things got out of hand, I am not claiming to know about each and every thread on here but it is the first time that I have seen a thread locked due to a stalemate. IMO I would say that censorship is a bit of a strong term on this one, but I am not the one being closed off, if it were me i would take him up on his offer to PM and see if green can do the same.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:59 AM
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and there it was...and there it went? what happened to #1...never mind then
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10
and there it was...and there it went? what happened to #1...never mind then
Since you took the time to respond, I put the post back up, so there would be a context to your answer. And thanks for taking the time to offer an opinion.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:02 PM
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cobalt... you respect me so much you did two things:

#1 ; I asked for a PM to discuss the first thread I closed. You sent ZERO messages.

Greenmoonshine sent me a PM. His view is quite different than your view.

My opinion is you ruined a tech thread with disagreements on grease , no grease , grooves , no grooves.

#2 ; you started another thread on the same subject thread I had closed ... as a "throw it in Crosley face deal" IMO

You then pop over here to play the :" I am a victim card" .. You also play the "censorship" card. LOL You need to re-read the definition of censorship... everything is out in the open that was posted , nothing removed. I did stop the ball from rolling for a while.

This is a private owned board. Jon can allow or remove anything he sets out rules on. As an example: illegal activities like street racing are frowned on here.

Nothing is set in stone here. At this time it appears I will re-open the threads and merge your "in your face Crosley" thread into the original thread.

If you want to know what greenmoonshine thinks, ask him. I will not post a PM sent to me as it is "private".

If you had sent a PM and discussed this first, but no.

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Old 07-05-2010, 01:20 PM
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In the tech forums it is called meaningful contribution..once a thread no longer is recieving posts that are meangiful and germane to the topic we can close them to preserve the good tech information. Main rule of moderation is to keep it civil and on topic..

Sam
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:32 PM
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Cobalt, here is my membership opinion, as I am no longer a moderator . Your point was made very clear in the original thread. It came down to agree to disagree, the thread did not need to go on. The second thread very much could be considered "in your face Crosley" IMHO and deserved to be locked.

Just my 2
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:47 PM
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Even though I haven't been here long, or been a mod, I've been on other forums for a while. I have to agree with 302 Z28 on this one. The first thread was getting nowhere, and the second was to start-up again.

Cobalt, a lot of people here respect and listen to what you have to say. There's only a few people here besides you (Cole, oldbogie, and a couple other guys), that I like reading...whatever you guys write. I don't always agree, but hey, if something works for you guys...I'm SURE it'll work, period. Always going to be people with different ideas/opinions. Just gotta let it go sometimes.

Like I should talk though...I've had my issues here ...but I try harder to either let it go, or not respond.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2010, 09:52 PM
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I have reopened the thread originally started by greenmoonshine. He would like the tech info to continue and not be dumped. I suggested a wiki article was the method to use.

I had no intention of dumping the thread. The threads were closed as a stopping point so discussion could be carried out via PM and in the moderator section here.


Cobalt327 ; if you wish to repost - copy / paste the tech information from your new thread into greenmoonshine thread

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Old 07-05-2010, 09:53 PM
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Echo what A1SuperSport said, I also respect your contributions to the site Cobalt. I hope this will not cause you to leave, that would be a loss for all of us.

Vince
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:53 AM
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The thread is open and that's all I care about.

Thanks to all who contributed.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:56 AM
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Vince- I thought you were still a moderator here. I hadn't seen you posting as much recently, but that happens. Had no idea you had stopped moderating.

A real loss to the forum, in my honest opinion.
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Old 07-06-2010, 08:19 AM
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For what its worth, just a minor observation from another "ex-mod" here on HR.Com. While I have not strong opinions on whether or not thread #1 was "going nowhere", I do believe that locking or dumping threads for that reason can be a slippery slope. What "going nowhere" means to one person might be "valuable insight" to another. We just don't know.

Determining the tipping point between "going somewhere" and "going nowhere" would appear, at first glance, to be a very subjective and difficult sort of determination which begins to put moderators in the position of judging the relative merits of technical content rather than insuring uncivil behavior or inappropriate content is not taking place on the board. In general, I tend to believe the relative merits of technical content are "self regulating' on discussion boards such as this. That is, technical discussion should be allowed to continue openly and freely until it reaches its own logical conclusion. Even if it sometimes seems maddeningly repetitive.

Over the years we've had dozens and dozens of threads which seem to drone on with nothing particularly new being added. But most of them remain open and everyone is allowed to add their 2 cents...even if those two pennies match every other penny that has already been offered up. Under most circumstances these threads eventually fad off and collapse under their own weight. And thread #1, no doubt, would have done the same. So in that aspect, I would agree with cobalt's objections to the initial locking of the thread. IMHO, this was a pretty civilized give-and-take which had gone on for far less time than many other threads which have been left standing on this site. Thus the decision to lock gives the appearance of being subjective.

The question of locking thread #2, however, is a no-brainer in my estimation. Starting an alternative thread to circumvent the locking of an original thread will almost ALWAYS get the treatment this one got. And rightly so. If the moderator(s) did not lock #2, then their usefulness as moderators is virtually zero, since the original locking would become meaningless.

One final note. While it may not be "fair" or "equal", I do believe that IF moderators enter into these ares of subjective decision making (where no obvious forum rules are being broken) that they should consider the reputation of the individuals participating in a thread whenever possible. To my knowledge Cobalt has always conducted himself with a well mannered approach on these forums and has been an excellent contributor over a number of years. He basically sticks to his areas or expertise and provides well reasoned and informative observations. And on a personal note, he has helped me over a lot of hurdles in the construction of my projects.

So I can't help but believe that a member like Cobalt deserves the benefit of the doubt that their content offerings are being given with the best of intentions...even if they might repeat themselves or continue to argue their point for an extra post or two. I'm not suggesting they should be given special treatment if they break a well established forum rule. Only that their intentions and actions in a particular thread should be weighed in light of their prior history when no specific rules are being broken.

I'm glad to see thread #1 has been reopened and I believe that was a good decision by Crosley.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2010, 07:52 PM
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The thread I looked at sounded, to me, like a debate between to people determined to prove they are right.

These sites are not a public domain. They are usually owned by someone who sets the rules, and asks others to help moderate. I would go with their decision, or expect continued closings.

Maybe you should try the H.A.M.B. They love debates.
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Old 07-09-2010, 08:14 AM
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It is good the thread was reopened and I have to side with Cobalt here as I was following the thread and it was just two people who were politely disagreeing. My interest from point is I do mine like Cobalt and not saying right or wrong as I don't know but fun to play engineer sometimes.

If thread was closed because it was going "no-where", the perhaps we could go delete about 90% of the threads in paint in body as "useless and unsubstantiated BS and not only going nowhere, has no purpose."
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