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Old 06-03-2008, 09:17 PM
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Need help replacing Oil Pan Gasket with out removing Engine...

Hello!

I was wondering if I could get some tech advice on how to replace an Oil Pan Gasket in a 1970 Olds Cutlass Supreme with an original 350 rocket?

I have one friend saying the engine needs to be removed, and another saying just remove one engine mount...

I could really use some sound advice from people with more of a solid knowledge base than the internet....

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Last edited by 70oldscutlass; 06-03-2008 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70oldscutlass
Hello!

I was wondering if I could get some tech advice on how to replace an Oil Pan Gasket in a 1970 Olds Cutlass Supreme with an original 350 rocket?

I have one friend saying the engine needs to be removed, and another saying just remove one engine mount...

I could really use some sound advice from people with more of a solid knowledge base than the internet....
Replacing Oil Pan Gasket on 1972 Nova 454 With Motor In Car - Help
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Old 06-03-2008, 09:42 PM
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Is it just the oil pan leaking? Not sure on that car but if you're going through the trouble, why not get it up, or out, so that you can get at and see everything and not risk having to do it again? I say this because on some vehicles/engines you can do some things, and on some of those you may even have experience at more than one. Some are easy and results good, others you will say more swear words at in one attempt (maybe 2 +) than you have in the last several years. Flip a coin, and then think about the do it over thing.

Oh too, the Internet has plenty of information/misinformation, how you interpret and use it is a whole 'nother deal.
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Old 06-03-2008, 10:01 PM
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Thanks for the info Stroker,

Yes the pan...I have spent the last couple days degreasing the engine, then placing her on ramps and just patiently watching, with the car running and sitting, to determine where the oil was coming from. It was from the front and the left rear of the pan...

That being said, I have used both friends and the internet to collect as much information as I could to figure out what I need to do. I think you are right, it seems to be a coin toss. It's just a matter of how much time, patience and swear words I want to use on this project!

I was hoping that someone here would be able to tell me something different from what I already had a feeling I had to do...
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Old 06-03-2008, 11:32 PM
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70Olds did you read this post about someone else doing what you're talking about? Just different Eng.

Replacing Oil Pan Gasket on 1972 Nova 454 With Motor In Car - Help
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Old 06-04-2008, 02:06 AM
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You can lift the engine about 2 inches and be able to drop the pan about 2.5". Theoretically (if you remove the starter and oil filter) you could remove and replace the seals, but you risk dropping crap in the pan, plus you don't have the room to properly clean the pan rails in preparation to install the new ones.

When its all said and done, you might feel better only having mildly moved the engine, but in truth I find it easier to remove the engine, or at least separate it from the tranny so I can get it up high enough to remove the oil pan completely.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:24 AM
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curtis73,

Thanks for your input!

Questions, do you think it is at all possible to drop the pan and just clean the old gaskets?

On my Cutlass, with the engine as is I have an easy 2 1/2 inches of clearance from the cross member.

I am just not tech sound enough to pull an engine, I realize with mine being just engine (no a/c) and being a 1970 (no, to limited emissions) it would be easy.

I honestly dont know where to even start to do a job like that!
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70oldscutlass
curtis73,

Thanks for your input!

Questions, do you think it is at all possible to drop the pan and just clean the old gaskets?

On my Cutlass, with the engine as is I have an easy 2 1/2 inches of clearance from the cross member.
No. Even if you could get the pan off without completely destroying the gasket, its kinda like a sticker. Its designed to seal once. Its cork/rubber/paper with rubber ends. Once its off, you need to remove it all and start with new gaskets. Cleaning the old gaskets is kinda like cleaning grease out of a sponge. There is no way to get all the oil out of the porous gasket, and its probably rock hard anyway.

One thing you can do is see if anyone makes a molded one-piece pan seal. If they do, its very easy to put it in, so then its just a matter of getting all the old one off without dropping it in the pan. My only concern is that if you drop junk in the pan, then you pretty much have to disconnect the tranny so you can lift the engine high enough to get the junk out of the pan, and then you're looking at the same amount of work anyway. Chances are that the pan's cork gasket will come off in one piece are very slim. Some scraping and chemical use will be required to get the pan rails clean and ready for the new gasket. Then a new standard gasket comes in four pieces that must be glued in strategic places while being assembled on the block. Not easy at all, but do-able if you have the one-piece rubber seal
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:30 AM
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70oldscutlass,

I'm not sure if it is possible to remove the pan on your particular car without lifting the engine, but if you chose to try it, once you have the pan loose and dropped down sitting on the crossmember, if it doesn't want to slide back to remove it, rotate the crank to reposition the crank to gain clearance. This has worked for me on several cars and trucks. The older they are they are usually more serviceable.
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSedan64
70Olds did you read this post about someone else doing what you're talking about? Just different Eng.

Replacing Oil Pan Gasket on 1972 Nova 454 With Motor In Car - Help



Yeap Thanks, just read it during my lunch break...

Looks like this person had the same thing in mind as I do, or should say "did"
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis73
No. Even if you could get the pan off without completely destroying the gasket, its kinda like a sticker. Its designed to seal once. Its cork/rubber/paper with rubber ends. Once its off, you need to remove it all and start with new gaskets. Cleaning the old gaskets is kinda like cleaning grease out of a sponge. There is no way to get all the oil out of the porous gasket, and its probably rock hard anyway.

One thing you can do is see if anyone makes a molded one-piece pan seal. If they do, its very easy to put it in, so then its just a matter of getting all the old one off without dropping it in the pan. My only concern is that if you drop junk in the pan, then you pretty much have to disconnect the tranny so you can lift the engine high enough to get the junk out of the pan, and then you're looking at the same amount of work anyway. Chances are that the pan's cork gasket will come off in one piece are very slim. Some scraping and chemical use will be required to get the pan rails clean and ready for the new gasket. Then a new standard gasket comes in four pieces that must be glued in strategic places while being assembled on the block. Not easy at all, but do-able if you have the one-piece rubber seal

I just checked into a one piece gasket, looks like no such luck....I think its because how the timing chain cover is on an Olds 350...

I just fear pulling an engine, This would be my first and I just dont want to mess it up...
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Old 06-04-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49flipper
70oldscutlass,

I'm not sure if it is possible to remove the pan on your particular car without lifting the engine, but if you chose to try it, once you have the pan loose and dropped down sitting on the crossmember, if it doesn't want to slide back to remove it, rotate the crank to reposition the crank to gain clearance. This has worked for me on several cars and trucks. The older they are they are usually more serviceable.

Thanks 49Flipper, I think I am at a point now that I have to suck it up and pull the engine.
But I did find this on 442.com:

Oil Pan Gasket Replacement, Engine in Car
Read these instructions completely before proceeding to identify tools and items you need, and to familiarize yourself with this procedure!


Drain the oil (don't laugh).
Rotate the engine so #1 is in TDC position.
Remove the torque convertor cover.
Remover the starter.
Remove the mount cross bolts, and lift the engine 3"-4". If you've converte to HEI, you might need to remove the distributor cap for firewall clearance.
Remove the oil pan. A few good 1/4" drive extentions and u-joints help removing the middle pan bolts (the ones over the frame cross member).
Spend 4 hours swearing.
When I dropped a 5/16" socket in the engine (did I just admit that?) I managed to get the oil pan off with the engine in the car, without taking the tranny off. The key is that the #1 cylinder must be in the up position, this gives you the clearance to get the pan out after you drop it.

The hardest part it getting it back on. I will never do it again, it was a 4 hour job. I think it took me an hour to pull out my 330.

I've done it by jacking the engine up from the motor mounts (only, no disconnecting the trans, or anything else), and pulling the pan. It doesn't need to be up much, and another thing that makes it easier, is to make sure the first pistons (#1, and 2), are at TDC, as this puts the throw of the crank up out of the way. I actually didn't change the oil pan gasket, but was changing the rear main seal, but, of course, I had to change the pan in the process. It didn't take terribly long to do, but you have to let the oil drain for quite some time (try to get as much out of the pan at first), and then wipe everything of after pulling the pan. It's no fun being under the car, when it's dripping all over you.
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:42 PM
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oil pan removal

Irealize that this post has been a long long time ago, but am just wondering why nobody mentioned to just retorque the exiating oil pan bolts being very careful not to over tighten them which you can do very easily. If he would have retightened the bolts and cleaned the area real good and taken the car for a long drive he may have found out that his oil leak was fixed. But if it is in fact still leaking pulling the engine is the only solution.
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:21 PM
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You guy's must never have worked at flat rate in the 60's & 70's , most any car or truck we were able to r&r oil pans w/o removing the engine ... BTDT



dave
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Old 10-28-2011, 06:29 PM
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oil pan

i had this same car i had to replace 2 piece rear main seal i dropped starter and filter both motor mounts trans dust cover and jacked motor up by crank pully and wood blocks inserted were mounts were and i removed oil pump into pan then twisted pan a little to pass side and removed then cleaned everything replaced seal ,oil pump,and pan gasket and i had a bad motor mount but it worked well but every demon is a little different
i did this on my back and i was 17 so hope this helps
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