In need of some specific ignition/electrical help - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Electrical
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:25 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In need of some specific ignition/electrical help

Hi everyone,

I'm a new guy here and have a huge wiring issue.

First things first, the car and equipment:
1968 Chevelle - 350
3 wire GM alt
Mallory Unilite Dist
Mallory Promaster coil
Mallory Resistor
2 post starter (batt + and s)
All Autometer gauges (volts, water temp, oil pressure, fuel level, tach)
Misc accessories (electric fans, stereo amplifier, etc.)

Explanation of problem:
I don't understand wiring. I bought the car a few years ago and stored it until last month. The wiring under hood and interior was a basketcase already. While in storage, someone tore most of dash apart, including most of the electrical. There is no dash, no gauges, no ignition switch.

I'm on a wife imposed limited budget, so I can't purchase a Painless kit or the like, nor can I understand from the instructions of any kit where wires start and end.

Goal:
To wire the car myself, with the supplies I have on hand or can get easily. I have every tool known to man, tons of good wire in all sizes, connectors, soldering iron, and shrink tube and label printer. Everything to make the harness, except the knowledge. I'd like to stick with a black and red wire only harness, utilizing my heat shrink tube printer for identification with exception to pre wired components.

I need to learn more about these things:
-Alternator exciter function and wiring location
-How to wire a key switch for accessory on, ignition on, and push button starter.
-If my wiring diagram is correct, although incomplete

I have a visual diagram that I have made with what I can find online since I can't make sense of any of the technical diagrams out there:



http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...ofWIRING-1.jpg



Thank you!

    Advertisement

Last edited by HARJOMOTORSPORTS; 08-14-2007 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-14-2007, 07:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
wiring diagrams

Try to find wiring diagrams by Mitchell, they are by far the easiest to make sense of for a rookie. They may have a web site. I'm sorry but mine only go back to the mid 70's, so I can't be of much specific help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2007, 01:40 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ernkazern
Try to find wiring diagrams by Mitchell, they are by far the easiest to make sense of for a rookie. They may have a web site. I'm sorry but mine only go back to the mid 70's, so I can't be of much specific help.

Thanks for the recommendation 'Ern'... I'll check into getting that book.

Scott
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2007, 03:31 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
don't do it all in red!!!!....you (and anybody else who works on the car) will be cursing big time trying to trouble shoot anything....
30-50' rolls of different colors #12 wire are like $4 at NAPA.....
I have used different colors of permanent magic markers to make "striped wires" "dotted wires" etc and a few times have used on hand spray paint colors on white wire for more different wire colors

all grounds black is fine

$11=factory authorized reprint of the 1968 Chevelle wiring diagrams=book #MP95 from any of the resto-parts houses (like year one):

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...O.x=21&GO.y=12

80%+(?) of all the older cars are wired the same....here's the easy to read and very complete Mustang schematics...might help you.....

http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~djhamma/wiring.htm

Last edited by red65mustang; 08-16-2007 at 03:44 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-18-2007, 12:33 AM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HARJOMOTORSPORTS

Doc here,

I can hardly read your schematic..sorry, so I'm tossing in guesses here..but from what I SEE..You have some major problems here..

If I am wrong please make a clearer drawing..

One the coil and ballast will run 24/7/365..there is no switch for it...once the battery is charged again (it will go dead every few hours) and it is started, it will not shut off..PLUS the ballast is connected wrong..the "R" side of the starter MUST go to the + side of the coil, and the ballast side of the ignition wire must got to the ballast , then to the coil +..

There is what looks to be a FUSE on the battery power line to the starter...this will last about 1 ms when the starter is energized..then blow itself apart under 1000 CCA's..

The main fuse link goes BETWEEN the fuse buss AND the "b" terminal on the starter..and over to the Ignition switch..

The starter Will run 24/7/365..no starter switch..and it is hooked hot...and there is a fuse here..it will last a very short time under load..no fuse...

You show no alternator output wire, from the output to the "B" terminal on the starter, via a proper fuse link..

You show some obscure box on the upper right, that has just power and ground..if this is nothing more than some type of switch..it will become a dead short when activated (I can't read what it says..)

None of your engine monitoring group shows power or ground as well as senders ( and as may be in your case, instrument regulators) as well as a dim circuit..


Get a Manual, make correction, and make a better drawing and we'll gp from there..

Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 05:50 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Simplifications

That's Doc... I should have been a little more clear with my questions. Also, I've since realized that I had uploaded an earlier, incorrect version of my diagram. in my first post.

Here are my updated questions that I cannot find answers to on ANY diagram:

1. Where in line (between which components) would a toggle ignition switch be wired? I understand the concept of wiring a simple push button starter, but not where the BEST place would be for a simple toggle ignition switch to be wired that would not allow for run-on.

2. On a two terminal starter (Batt+ and 'S') in the absence of an 'R' terminal, should I run wire from the 'S' terminal to the + side of the coil so it can be energized during cranking?

3. What is the function of the alternator #1 terminal on a 10si/12si AC Delco? Is this the internal regulator sensing terminal or the alternator exciter? Terminal #2 as I understand should be jumpered to the alternator output lug... is this correct? Where would Terminal #1 be wired to?

Thanks!

Scott
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Wiring

In general:
The number 1 wire on the 10si alternator is fed from the run position of the ignition switch through a 10 ohm resistance.
You need to send battery voltage to the S terminal on the starter for the engine to crank. Assuming the rest of the starter is wired correctly. Most switch applications have to be shut off or let go of manually to stop the current from flowing. Any wire that you can pull battery voltage off of should work. I don't know the current requirements of the starter solenoid, probably 20 to 25 amps at most. Doc can probably find that info for you. Just be sure the switch, wiring and fuse, (be sure all of the wiring is fused and/or protected by fusible links!), are big enough to carry the required current.
I'm not sure about the coil wiring, some of it depends on what ignition system you're going to use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:21 PM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Doc here,

Let me see If I can make it a Bit easier for you to do..

Here is a Schematic I drew for a "Test" STAND for break in..It provides for Start, Stop, ENGINE Monitoring group, and the like..It will Work for ANY "Bare Bones Application" UNTIL you get your NEW KIT***------>>>>SO LONG as you ADD a NSS switch<<<<<<<<-------*** to the "S" wire off the solenoid..so you don't kill yourself or someone else..




TO DO AWAY with buttons and switches (that will HAVE to be big and clunky to handle the current UNLESS you run relays..and even a caveman can rip your car..) Get one of these: Like $8 Fazools at auto Zombie..ACC/OFF/Lock/ON START, and 2 keys, will mount anywhere and is MADE to handle the contact current..Worth the $8 Fazools..



UNIVERSAL IGNITION SWITCH

The 50 amp on/ Near the Battery is a FUSE LINK or MAXI FUSE..NOT a fuse..be sure you get that right..



FUSE LINK..WELL BUILT HOME MADE LINK BINDING POST




MAXI FUSE

FOLLOW THE Gauge sizes on the left..or you'll just burn it out..the gauge sizes on the right may be 14 gauge...no problem..

ON the Gauge (engine Monitoring) add a 2.5 amp fuse on each power wire for protection...wire Lamps to the IGN side of the switch so they come on when you turn on the key..

IF YOU have a points type Ignition..the BALLAST RESISTOR MUST go between the wire on the left (+ coil wire) and the Nut on the coil...THEN on the bottom of the drawing, the wire that say's Secondary Ignition MUST go directly to the + side of the coil..(THE NUT SIDE).

THIS SYSTEM is intended for a "One Shot " break in run..this is why you need to add the above for a ***temporary use situation***..but will work fine..

DO NOT FORGET THE NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH FROM THE "S" WIRE ON THE STARTER SOLENOID...THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE!!!!!!!!

FOR A CHARGE system...

I am assuming you have a standard Delco 10 or 12 SI series, 3 wire, Internally regulated alternator...Follow this and it will charge just fine...(omit the wire marked 81 only..) output wire to be 10 gauge RED..(big lug) GROUND LUG to be 10 Gauge BLACK..to a proper GROUND BUSS...The #3 and #4 Wire may be 14 gauge..The output wire MUST go to the Solenoid "B" terminal..nowhere else or it will not shut off..




Think your done yet?? ....

NOPE...

Now you MUST wire the OTHER half of the system...The Ground Buss System..else you will have all that power all dressed up and nowhere to go...

A NEW kit won't provide one...(you MUST make it yourself or purchase separatly about $350 more Fazools..) The Old one (trust me) IS not up to more use/abuse without falling apart one circuit at a time as each fails..and now it's apart, It just does not make sense NOT to do it..or you'll have probles so long as you own the car..(trust me on that too..)

For your Ground Buss, Set it up as follows:

BE sure First, You have A 4 gauge Cable (for stock battery location, OR , 0/0 or 0/1 Cable for a trunk location) from the battery, to any handy bolt at or NEAR the starter on the block .

Using a short run to something like a seat belt bolt, or body bolt just adds resistance, the body is insulated..(has road paint and sits on rubber mounts) this , makes for a "Poor or no" Bonding situation..
  • that makes resistance..
  • Resistance makes Heat..
  • heat melts things and further insulates the bond,
  • which makes more heat..and so on..until you no longer have a good bond..

To install a proper ground buss system, This MUST be done:
  • 1 ) Run a properly gauged (0/0 or 0/1) Ground cable from the battery in the trunk, Or A 4 Gauge cable for a stock located battery, to any handy bolt at or near the starter on the block. From that same bolt get a 4 gauge Battery cable at the parts store, that has two 3/8 ring terminals on each end and attach it there and to the Frame. Make this run as short as possible.

  • 2 ) Next get some 10 gauge wire and ring terminals, run two wires from your bolt on the block, to the Firewall, Burnish off all the paint, grease or oil or dirt from the area, Install a sheetmetal or Self Drilling Tech screw using a star washer as well as a lock washer.. and the other 10 gauge wire to the Alternator ground lug, bracket or mount bolt and attach with star and lock washers.
  • 3 ) Next get some Wire Braid, (expensive! about $10 for 5 - 6 inch pieces! ) Check Radio Shack for this, OR cheaper yet, get some RG 8 Coax cable, about 10 feet. Should run you about 15 cents a foot.

HOW TO MAKE WAY DURABLE CHEAP GROUND BRAID:
--------------------------------------------------
  • 1 ) carefully Slit the insulation from the cable with a Talaban Boarding pass (box knife) .


  • 2 ) Peel away the insulation until you just have the center dielectric and braid left, then carefully press the ends of the coax cable BRAID together like a Chinese "Finger puzzle"


  • 3 ) Slide the dielectric and center conductor out. remove it and toss it..


  • 4 ) On a work bench, Flatten the Braided shield out, use a round weight like a full paint can to roll over it.
------------------------------------------------------

This will be your braid cable, just Cut to smaller length's as needed, and tuck the cut ends into a crimp terminal and crimp the ends on..

IF you can Solder, Tin the ends before you tuck the ends of the cable into the terminals, then Tin the barrel of the terminals, then insert the cable and crimp..

Then heat the terminal and braid, feed some solder into the opposite end as the heat is being applied, let it melt and FLOW or WICK toward the heat..until the terminal barrel is filled and is smooth and shiny..

that is a good joint..gray and rough is a "Cold Joint" and you'll have to start over..
  • 4 ) NEXT, install braid from the radiator support to the frame, Fenderwells to frame , hood to firewall, Doors to door posts, gas flap to body, tailgate / Trunk to body. Install a cable or Braid From the Fuel tank Ground lug where the sender, Fuel line is to the frame..burnish the frame, use star washers and sheetmetal or Tech (self Drilling screws) on the frame.

  • 5 ) At each point the wire is grounded, Burnish ALL the paint and grease off to bare metal. Use a proper star-washer and lock. Use sheetmetal or Tech screws where no screws are available.


It sounds like a lot of work, but after you assemble all the parts, it's only a few hours to do..and you'll end up with a system that will work reliably for many years to come..and can eliminate that from your troubleshooting list.

Remember: GROUND is the other Half of your 12 volt circuit AND is equally as important as having POWER to the device!

DO NOT SKIP A STEP!!!!!!!!!

THIS IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE POWER SIDE OF THE CIRCUIT!!!!!!

REMOVE THE GROUND FROM AN IGNITION COIL..WITH A GOOD 14.4 VOLTS AT THE + TERMINAL...WHAT HAPPENS???

THE ENGINE DIES...IT DON'T CARE WHICH SIDE OF THE CIRCUIT FAILS!


Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Wiring

Double check which wire goes to battery voltage on your alternator, my Mitchell wiring diagrams didn't make that clear. One does receive battery voltage and the other what I explained in the previous post. It's been so long since I worked on a 10si alternator I'm not 100% sure of which wire is which.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Wiring

Well there you go, I thought when you said 1 and 2 you were referring to the numbers of the wires at the voltage regulator.
Doc, where do you get those diagrams? Are those from old Motor Manuals? I use the Mitchell and they are really weak for some things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:39 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Questions

What was that specific alternator diagram from? Mine all showed a 10 ohm resistor or an idiot light in the brown wire circuit. I assumed the idiot light had 10 ohms of resistance.
I think you meant wires 2 and 3 had to be 14 gauge. #4 is the hole to ground the regulator through for testing, isn't it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 07:51 PM
66GMC's Avatar
Get in, sit down, hang on
 

Last journal entry: Cab Removal
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Olds, Alberta Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 2,761
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 32
Thanked 90 Times in 85 Posts
I found you guys some wiring diagrams on Autozone's website.
Edit: I see that the car was originally equipped with an externally-regulated alternator.
Follow Doc's diagram for the internally regulated alternator wiring.







HTH,
Don

Last edited by 66GMC; 08-21-2007 at 07:56 PM. Reason: External Regulator
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:30 PM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Doc here,

I Have TONS of diagrams in my shop files in obscure folders..just like that one..if I don't have one I draw it..but my SCM Software is kinda crappy..but it was free..what can I say?

THE CHARGE CIRCUIT IS CHEV 1970-mid 80's GM , SI. 63-100 Amp common low option vehicle..SOME systems used a 10 ohm resistor to keep the field alive in case the bulb blew out..some didn't care..I'll bet yours is a PONCHO..

The #4 hole on MY diagram..do go sticking any small screwdrivers in there..LOOK Closely..IT IS marked GRD..OR nothing at all but has a ground # 10 wire attached to it as well AS (USUALLY) a rectangle clamp, to hold charcoal canister or heater hoses in place..if you look closley..next stop is the slip rings...AT LEAST on a Genuine DELCO..what others may do is another deal..

Full field testing is not recommended anymore anyway...and if you also look, #4 hole is THREADED..



Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2007, 09:08 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 725
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Wiring

My computer doesn't show that much detail, #4 looked like the hole where we used to ground the regulator to test the alternator output on that old style 10si. No, I agree, you wouldn't want to try that on a late model alternator. Now that you mention it though I remember there is a threaded hole on the backs of those. On the factory applications they'd usually have a bracket of some sort bolted on there. My diagram was from a Chevy section of my Mitchells, but it was drawn in such a way as to cover several different applications. I'm sure some Pontiacs had the same setup.
Thanks for the info.
How's your health?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2007, 04:08 AM
docvette's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Rebuild an alternator Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lafayette, california
Age: 62
Posts: 7,362
Wiki Edits: 12

Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernkazern
My computer doesn't show that much detail, #4 looked like the hole where we used to ground the regulator to test the alternator output on that old style 10si. No, I agree, you wouldn't want to try that on a late model alternator. Now that you mention it though I remember there is a threaded hole on the backs of those. On the factory applications they'd usually have a bracket of some sort bolted on there. My diagram was from a Chevy section of my Mitchells, but it was drawn in such a way as to cover several different applications. I'm sure some Pontiacs had the same setup.
Thanks for the info.
How's your health?
Doc here,


This Photo was taken over the weekend, one of about 45, throughout the project, for a posting I am formulating on rebuilding a GM AC DELCO alternator, at home, for newbies, with little or no hand tools, and only a handful of instructions..

MY handicaps were, it was done from a Hospital type BED, on a Food Serving type tray, in under 30 minutes, with tools you can hide in your hand...

IF I can do that..AND NOT screw it up ANYONE should be able to do it with a $17 Fazool kit from auto Zombie..(GM 1a kit)...as opposed to PAYING for a $159.00 to $300.00 Genuine Delco replacement alternator..and saving money..MORE TO FOLLOW ON THIS..


MEANWHILE BACK TO YOUR QUESTION:



The boss on the top (which is actually the LEFT side), It's ONLY sole purpose in life is to hold a short bolt, that has an ADEL Clamp for securing the Alternator output wire to the output lug..so the wire cant short or fall off..IT is threaded..

The Boss on the bottom, is threaded, accepts a SHORT bolt that holds a rectangular CLAMP that holds the charcoal canister hoses..OR heater hoses..(depends on car..(this was late 70's to mid 80's Corvette, left/Driver side installation) AND does NOR was intended for nothing else..

BTW: this unit went back on over the weekend..

Has NOT suffered overnight dead battery's at all anymore..

Charges at 14.4 volts, DC..at warm Curb Idle..

NO MORE random "Check Engine Lamp"....(along with a soft glow "Bat" Lamp)



In a "Side by Side check of the diode bricks..It was found that the Regulator Brick had an 8 ohm reverse bias to ground..drawing off the battery 24/7/365..

The rectifier Brick had a reverse bias of 91 Ohms on leg # 3 of the brick effectively reducing the DC output to about 1/3 it's output power..

The Brush Assembly's were worn, and the rotor pickup pads could play an Edison wax disc they were so grooved..

THIS IS why I tell guys to side by side CHECK the parts..so they can get a "feel and mental picture " of what is correct and what is not...and how it works..otherwise shotgunning it and tossing the old ..you only learn where the chitcan is..and nothing more..

Short story is..for $17 Fazools, I saved the guy an average $159.00 Fazools..OR I could have charged him for it..and pocketed the rest..Either way, he would have spent it..and this was something he could do on his own..for the $17...and not screw it up..(not possible!) ANYWAY more to follow n that post as I write it up..and add the photos...


Doc
__________________
Aftermarket Solutions
Electronic & Electrical
Innovations
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Electrical posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
350 Build.. Im sure there are plenty of threads on this... but this is specific!! artillerystevens Engine 10 12-04-2006 09:34 PM
specific pinto 5 lug conversion lyndenw Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 09-22-2006 06:38 PM
3M Clinic, Specific questions?? Bee4Me Body - Exterior 10 06-08-2005 05:47 AM
350 SBC...specific years? 78SilverShark Engine 2 10-14-2003 07:20 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.