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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
The 450 castings are not the 305 head you want to start with.
They are not all the same. The 4416 is the best of the 305 heads to start with.

Best with generous porting and 1.94x 1.60 valves added, on a 350.

You already have the best head for the job.

If you have 062 vortecs use them.
The 062's need no mods to run that .442" .465" lift camshaft

check retainer to seal clearance at .465" lift. may need minor "ghetto grind" on the bottom of the stock vortec retainer.

use stock GM vortec rockers.
I think I'm gonna go with the "062". I have the guide cutter, seat cutter, stud boss cutter, arbor and a stud puller and tap guide. I'm gonna practice some more on my porting skills and do a little cleanup and matching on the "062" heads. I think the two books I bought are the best investment, book wise, I have ever made. I posted some pictures in my album of my home polishing/honing work on this motor and will take pictures of my before and after porting job. Thank you for your advise and tips, you have helped more than you know!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by geezer69 View Post
my buddy and me put a 383 in his s10. got the 9" with slicks.the 700r4 went to crap rite off. its a tight fit but not to bad. he used dart pro 1 230's.a bit too much head but its what he had layin around. .its tough to take off with street tires.it dont weigh much.your gona like it.even a stock 350 will push the heck out of your s10.hes gettin bout 460 hp and close to same tq. only ben desk top dynoed though. its a dang hoot to drive.rite now it has a built pg in it and 4-56 rear gears. it is a bit radical but a dang hoot!
This is my second s10 build. The first was an '86 with a .060 over flat top 350, Lunati 525 lift with World heads straight out of the box and 4.10 gears with a mini spool and it was very fun to drive. I wound up changin heads on it to "882" and tradin it for my brown '89 Chevy truck. Thanks for your imput, brought back some fun memories.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by The Camaro Kid View Post
Stay away from boat anchor 305 heads. Sure, they can work. After $800 worth of porting. Why bother? Your Vortecs will do more than those 305 heads could ever do. You said you learned to walk away from 305 heads, do yourself a favor and keep walking.

Dart, Brodix IK, Bowtie Vortec (small intake) are all good choices if you don't want to use the Vortecs you have.
If your spending $800 to port 305 heads your an idiot....and clearly don't read basic English....this is a Do it yourself.....spend very little, and you get what you put in.....they work....well......and nope, I'm not armchairing....I actually got off my *** and did a set....and was very happy with the results.....course, if i spent $800-1000 bucks, maybe I wouldn't have been.....
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:30 AM
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Lets do some Math
SHP castings $400x2 plus $400 for mild porting,lets call that a stage 1 port job.= $1,200.oo
what I get is a casting that will flow 235 cfm(more potential but thats all I need for a mild engine) and have a 75-80% exhaust ratio.I get a flow chart so I can match my cam.

OPTION 2
305/vortec/other GM castings=free or less than $50.oo w/e
buy a head porting kit?,,, $100.oo
buy a couple books,,,,$75.00
Porting power tool,,,$150.oo (or more)
time??? read the books,n/c but 10 hours invested,lets call it enjoyment=still co cost
40 hours labour to port heads to what we think is equal to my stage one port job I paid $400.oo
flow numbers= no idea,but better than stock,no idea if they are even but they look good.
Your labour value? you fill the number in.I would take that 40 hours and do overtime at what Im good at and get that money as a return or bonus towards my engine build.
You save $400.oo dollars for 40 hours of your time.
If you earn 10 bucks an hour then all is well.

The $900.oo you save comes at the cost of 40 hours of your labour and you end up with cast iron castings,that might be equal in flow. Next time you want to step up your power you will need new bigger castings,,,my castings have lots left yet.
If you know for sure that mediocre performance is all you want,then port your own heads,enjoy the project.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Lets do some Math
SHP castings $400x2 plus $400 for mild porting,lets call that a stage 1 port job.= $1,200.oo
what I get is a casting that will flow 235 cfm(more potential but thats all I need for a mild engine) and have a 75-80% exhaust ratio.I get a flow chart so I can match my cam.

OPTION 2
305/vortec/other GM castings=free or less than $50.oo w/e
buy a head porting kit?,,, $100.oo
buy a couple books,,,,$75.00
Porting power tool,,,$150.oo (or more)
time??? read the books,n/c but 10 hours invested,lets call it enjoyment=still co cost
40 hours labour to port heads to what we think is equal to my stage one port job I paid $400.oo
flow numbers= no idea,but better than stock,no idea if they are even but they look good.
Your labour value? you fill the number in.I would take that 40 hours and do overtime at what Im good at and get that money as a return or bonus towards my engine build.
You save $400.oo dollars for 40 hours of your time.
If you earn 10 bucks an hour then all is well.

The $900.oo you save comes at the cost of 40 hours of your labour and you end up with cast iron castings,that might be equal in flow. Next time you want to step up your power you will need new bigger castings,,,my castings have lots left yet.
If you know for sure that mediocre performance is all you want,then port your own heads,enjoy the project.
First off, I Thank you very much for your advice and imput Vinnie. You seem like a great feller. If I was gonna put my truck on the strip then yes, I would be going with proven parts that have the data to back em up. I really, really enjoy wrenchin and it's really all i've ever done and been around. My Dad taught me soo much but it was back in the day, before todays technology. I do still use the "secret" lol tricks of the dirt track days and am VERY thankful i'm able to do as much as I can do. I'm going to take what i'm learning from here, reading and combine it with what I was taught and enjoy building every motor I can. I feel I still have a ways to go before I feel safe puttin my die grinder to my heads that i'm gonna run on this motor, "062" but i'm lovin every minute of it. I do want to thank everybody that has given me their thoughts on this matter and I am quite sure i'll be asking some questions on my next build as ya'll are very smart on todays combinations. I'm headed out to measure the quench and order my head gaskets at least lol. Thank ya'll.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:23 AM
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I wish you the best of luck and hope you enjoy the project as it unfolds as much as the finished product.
There are always many correct answers,choose yours wisely and you will always have good results.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Lets do some Math
SHP castings $400x2 plus $400 for mild porting,lets call that a stage 1 port job.= $1,200.oo
what I get is a casting that will flow 235 cfm(more potential but thats all I need for a mild engine) and have a 75-80% exhaust ratio.I get a flow chart so I can match my cam.

OPTION 2
305/vortec/other GM castings=free or less than $50.oo w/e
buy a head porting kit?,,, $100.oo
buy a couple books,,,,$75.00
Porting power tool,,,$150.oo (or more)
time??? read the books,n/c but 10 hours invested,lets call it enjoyment=still co cost
40 hours labour to port heads to what we think is equal to my stage one port job I paid $400.oo
flow numbers= no idea,but better than stock,no idea if they are even but they look good.
Your labour value? you fill the number in.I would take that 40 hours and do overtime at what Im good at and get that money as a return or bonus towards my engine build.
You save $400.oo dollars for 40 hours of your time.
If you earn 10 bucks an hour then all is well.

The $900.oo you save comes at the cost of 40 hours of your labour and you end up with cast iron castings,that might be equal in flow. Next time you want to step up your power you will need new bigger castings,,,my castings have lots left yet.
If you know for sure that mediocre performance is all you want,then port your own heads,enjoy the project.
And like I said, its not for everyone for sure....I can't do overtime, well, I can, but don't get paid, I spent the time, with my kid, in the garage, listening to tunes, drinking coffee, and porting....it was something I enjoyed, and your right, they looked good, not a clue what the flow numbers were, but for the "mediocre"budget I had, they worked....heads were free, I borrowed a die grinder, I spent $84 on the porting kit, and an additional $20 on a longer cutting bit....my machine shop bill was $300, so for $400 I had "new" heads, that performed well, I learned a bunch (like why wearing safety glasses is a must and how much it sucks having to have a piece of metal drilled out of your eye) I got to spend time with the boy playing with the car, and at the end of it, I got to take a couple guys for a ride that previously stated I was an idiot and the motor would eat itself or be a slug....for me it was a great idea. But your very right, unless all the stars are lined up, you have the time, you have the skill or the urge to learn it, you have the tools, and the confidence to just do it period....then its not always the smart choice.....and know your limits....my current whale is big, and heavy, and over tired, and undergeared, and to make it work, I likely wouldn't do 305heads on it. It will need a bigger budget to perform like my vette did....I know this....
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:13 AM
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Hilarious. I don't know what Canada puts in the water up there but it should be investigated. Every Canadian that posts on here think the 416 305 head is the best thing going. Give it a rest.

You think a home porter with a die grinder and some stones is going to be able to match the flow of what GM engineers consider their best port design ever? Without a flow bench? Especially a beginner? Don't be calling anybody an idiot after posting that garbage.

On edit, I see you backtracked a little bit. All the things you mentioned while porting your heads are very valid pluses to what you did. There's just too many good heads out there at reasonable prices to mess around with those heads, especially when you consider you can port them all you want but you're still stuck with the old chamber design.





Quote:
Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
If your spending $800 to port 305 heads your an idiot....and clearly don't read basic English....this is a Do it yourself.....spend very little, and you get what you put in.....they work....well......and nope, I'm not armchairing....I actually got off my *** and did a set....and was very happy with the results.....course, if i spent $800-1000 bucks, maybe I wouldn't have been.....
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:53 AM
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camaro kid? are you reading all of the posts made by Canadians?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:27 PM
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I'm going to tell you what RHS told me behind closed doors yrs ago.That they invested huge into a CNC machine and hrs apond hrs of R & D to develop their own program. The thing is even after all the yrs they have been porting heads and with their most experienced porters,port to port matching was only within 25%. The labor hrs for that was out the door costs.More or less out of control and nonprofitable.That with their 5 axis CNC porting port to port matching was now within 5% and they could complete a set of heads start to finish in 8hrs.

It isn't the finish of a port that is most important nor the "rated intake runner size". In fact to smooth port true Vortec heads is counter productive. The rough surface is apart of what makes them Vortecs.What is most important is the cross section of the port and it's shape.

So what's my point about hand porting??. Well if you get a port to run port to port 25%,you just got very lucky because you just achieved the skill level of RHS's best hand porters.Do I suggest you run out and buy a CNC $250,000 machine??. Nope. Do I suggest you do a search on how to build a home use flow bench??. You bet I do. Flying blind is a bad end result. I am trying to make you aware of RHS's research and what you can expect with hand home porting.

Now 305 on 350's??. Increased SCR with under the best circumstances don't flow enough to make them worthwhile. Just the plain simple truth.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:44 PM
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whene reringing an older engine using the origional heads, is it a bad ideah go just clean up the ports on heads? ive always knocked down the tall casting ridges only on the intake ports and polish the exhaust ports smooth and work a little angle out of the runner but thats it. i never know if it workds or doesnt work. i figure it cant hurt.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:54 PM
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camaro kid? are you reading all of the posts made by Canadians?
Come on Vinnie.....it can't be all bad being lumped in with me!
Oh, my Poutine is ready....!
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:01 PM
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I'm going to tell you what RHS told me behind closed doors yrs ago.That they invested huge into a CNC machine and hrs apond hrs of R & D to develop their own program. The thing is even after all the yrs they have been porting heads and with their most experienced porters,port to port matching was only within 25%. The labor hrs for that was out the door costs.More or less out of control and nonprofitable.That with their 5 axis CNC porting port to port matching was now within 5% and they could complete a set of heads start to finish in 8hrs.

It isn't the finish of a port that is most important nor the "rated intake runner size". In fact to smooth port true Vortec heads is counter productive. The rough surface is apart of what makes them Vortecs.What is most important is the cross section of the port and it's shape.

So what's my point about hand porting??. Well if you get a port to run port to port 25%,you just got very lucky because you just achieved the skill level of RHS's best hand porters.Do I suggest you run out and buy a CNC $250,000 machine??. Nope. Do I suggest you do a search on how to build a home use flow bench??. You bet I do. Flying blind is a bad end result. I am trying to make you aware of RHS's research and what you can expect with hand home porting.

Now 305 on 350's??. Increased SCR with under the best circumstances don't flow enough to make them worthwhile. Just the plain simple truth.
Sigh.....OK, 305 heads = junk....period.
Budgets are stupid, spend what it takes to have the best no matter how long it takes.
Don't home port anything, cause clearly the results will be mediocre at best.
I think that about covers your views correct?
Excellent
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:22 PM
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Don't have the time right now.The rest of the story is how we went from a very scarey to drive straight axle Vega with a junk yard engine to a 632 50K engine.It's all positive posts and a outline how you could easily do the same thing.

TTYL
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:27 PM
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lol!!!
you guys must think Ive never ported heads,,,When I was in grade 12,metal work class I was using the milling machine as a personal head porter. I was 1/2 way finished the second head when the shop teacher stopped my project.I finished the last 2 ports with an electric drill,cause thats all I had.
I later put those 2.02 straight plug camel bump heads on a 283 with a used(yes,used) duntov 30/30 cam. Back then,people believed that you would lose torque if you used monster 2.02 valves on anything less than a 350 race engine.People also believed you needed small exhaust,2 inch duals,or you would lose torque,,,rofl....
So I had a 283,solid cam,muncie 4 speed,2 1/2 inch exhaust back in the early 70s. Ive moved up since then. I would never discourage anyone from self porting or any other thing you can do yourself,just make sure its worth it.

Now I see people building 383s like they are magic and trying to use cheap parts to make power. All good,if thats what you want,or just want the experience. Im just at the point where I wont work an extra 4 hours to save $50.00,but I will spend an extra $50.00 for a better part that makes the same power.
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