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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:13 PM
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go with stock steel shim and make sure everything is spotless!! check deck height if its over .015 inch use steel shim -it its closer to zero deck use composition gasket and if your fussy and smart measure deck height and choose an aftermarket HG of proper thickness to achieve a .035 - .040 total squish clearance between piston head and cylinder head ..... makes a nice difference !!

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
lol!!!
Now I see people building 383s like they are magic and trying to use cheap parts to make power. All good, if thats what you want, or just want the experience. Im just at the point where I wont work an extra 4 hours to save $50.00,but I will spend an extra $50.00 for a better part that makes the same power.
Amen Vinnie! I can't see spending all that money for the block work, rotating assembly, new camshaft and lifters, and all the supporting hardware for the cam if done right. You really need a good set of aftermarket heads that will complement the 383 ci. I thought the main reason for building a 383 ci was for the extra cubic inches for more torque and horsepower.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:40 PM
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Price out doing a set of proper rebuilt sbc stock cylinder heads !! guides - stainless valves- three angle valve job-set spring heights - new valve springs- ect ect maybe some screw in studs and the required machining for the good screw in studs -oh add guidplates ect ect good seals ect ect ........ Then when your educated go buy a set of edelbrock performer RPM heads and have something good for the same $$$ or less !!!!!!!!!
oh then i guess you could do the home porting job lol...... oh wait thats not even really free either is it !!!
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by salvagesavage View Post
Price out doing a set of proper rebuilt sbc stock cylinder heads !! guides - stainless valves- three angle valve job-set spring heights - new valve springs- ect ect maybe some screw in studs and the required machining for the good screw in studs -oh add guidplates ect ect good seals ect ect ........ Then when your educated go buy a set of edelbrock performer RPM heads and have something good for the same $$$ or less !!!!!!!!!
oh then i guess you could do the home porting job lol...... oh wait thats not even really free either is it !!!
Clearly you missed the point, and nobody was suggesting spending huge money on factory heads.....this wasn't the argument.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:32 PM
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bygddy,
My point that is kind of for you; you made a good impression with a cheapo 350 in a cheapo vette:::WELL DONE!!!
If you want to stay along this kind of technology? Instead of spending 8 or 900 bucks for a 383 and cheaping out on it with a few good parts and 28 more cubes,,,why not build a cheapo 406 and step up 50 cubes and throw cheapo parts at that?
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
bygddy,
My point that is kind of for you; you made a good impression with a cheapo 350 in a cheapo vette:::WELL DONE!!!
If you want to stay along this kind of technology? Instead of spending 8 or 900 bucks for a 383 and cheaping out on it with a few good parts and 28 more cubes,,,why not build a cheapo 406 and step up 50 cubes and throw cheapo parts at that?
I agree completely, I'm not interested in "cheaping out" this time around per say, if I'm doing a 383 it will get decent heads, SHP200'S OR IK200'S.....and it will get a solid lifter cam. I have no issue there, no, I won't spend huge dollars on "excellent" heads, afr etc...as I still have responsibilities that come first....I may buy, and install a blower on the junk that's in the car now with some cheap head work and see what I have. But this isn't a dirtball field car and I'm not going to treat it that way lol. My ***** came from anybody who says there shoukdnt be a budget. That's foolish, if that were the case some of us would have killer ride's, but most would be forever stuck collecting parts and getting discouraged until half finished projects get sold.......
Of course, then a hack like me can pick up that half finished project, throw budget parts at it, and be rolling in no time.
And around here 400blocks that aernt thrashed are like the holy grail....if I could find one, I would be using one....cubes are king and 406's are big fun.
As for the 305 heads argument, I get tired of hearing guys that have never tried it insinuating anyone who does is a complete simpleton. Nope, wouldn't use them on a "good" motor per say, or a big cube motor, but most of the time when I mention them the words "budget" or "I only want 300-350hp" are mentioned first....and as far as I'm concerned they have their place....but I'm not completely retarted and do know they aernt for everyone.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by salvagesavage View Post
go with stock steel shim and make sure everything is spotless!! check deck height if its over .015 inch use steel shim -it its closer to zero deck use composition gasket and if your fussy and smart measure deck height and choose an aftermarket HG of proper thickness to achieve a .035 - .040 total squish clearance between piston head and cylinder head ..... makes a nice difference !!
Well, that was my plan this afternoon but when I got out in the garage all I wanted to do was practice on my porting, lol. I didn't even unwrap my motor. I've got some errands to run tomorrow and plan on checking it when I get home as i'd like to order my head gaskets tomorrow night along with screw studs and self aligning rockers. I'm gettin close to feeling comfortable starting on the "062" heads so maybe might get some porting done next week.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
some like the work,, it's fun, it their hobby.. they don't call it 4 extra hours of WORK..
if you think of this, as work you got the wrong hobby..
Now thats what i'm talking about. Very well said. Thank you.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bygddy View Post
I agree completely, I'm not interested in "cheaping out" this time around per say, if I'm doing a 383 it will get decent heads, SHP200'S OR IK200'S.....and it will get a solid lifter cam. I have no issue there, no, I won't spend huge dollars on "excellent" heads, afr etc...as I still have responsibilities that come first....I may buy, and install a blower on the junk that's in the car now with some cheap head work and see what I have. But this isn't a dirtball field car and I'm not going to treat it that way lol. My ***** came from anybody who says there shoukdnt be a budget. That's foolish, if that were the case some of us would have killer ride's, but most would be forever stuck collecting parts and getting discouraged until half finished projects get sold.......
Of course, then a hack like me can pick up that half finished project, throw budget parts at it, and be rolling in no time.
And around here 400blocks that aernt thrashed are like the holy grail....if I could find one, I would be using one....cubes are king and 406's are big fun.
As for the 305 heads argument, I get tired of hearing guys that have never tried it insinuating anyone who does is a complete simpleton. Nope, wouldn't use them on a "good" motor per say, or a big cube motor, but most of the time when I mention them the words "budget" or "I only want 300-350hp" are mentioned first....and as far as I'm concerned they have their place....but I'm not completely retarted and do know they aernt for everyone.
You have responsibilities,but have fallen into the trap to bolt down a blower to anything is anything but cheap.Then say you not going to direct that blower money towards your good "second engine" 383 for AFR heads which are too expensive.Now I got that right,your words.But two engines and a budget??. One with a blower??.

Do you honestly think these guys haven't tried 305 heads??. For me being as old as I am,never tried them??. Well ok.LOL.

Vinnie I agree with you totally.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:28 AM
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You have responsibilities,but have fallen into the trap to bolt down a blower to anything is anything but cheap.Then say you not going to direct that blower money towards your good "second engine" 383 for AFR heads which are too expensive.Now I got that right,your words.But two engines and a budget??. One with a blower??.

Do you honestly think these guys haven't tried 305 heads??. For me being as old as I am,never tried them??. Well ok.LOL.

Vinnie I agree with you totally.
I addressed this on going pissing contest in my 383 thread...but to clarify...I have a spare motor, i t needs everything, I may or may not do something with it at some point, but isn't relivant to the current convo, I have a motor in my panel, I was debating a 383 build using a summit sold eagle rotating assembly, and 1000$ heads...or I would like to try a blower on it, with a freshen up of the heads, and a used 750dp I have, and a used 3000 converter I also have....bolting on a blower doesn't have to be ridiculously expensive, I have been in more then a few blower cars on completely stock long blocks, some with a ton of mileage, and they are an absolute riot....I was mistaken in the past in my assumption that "supercharger = big money" when that doesn't have to be the case....if you show some restraint, and some common sense....you can enjoy piles of torque and lots of tire frying antics without killing your check book....and unless I manage to have a con rod go through the block and somehow wind up in the blower, I would be more then willing to gamble that if and when Indo hurt the motor, I will buy better parts, and reuse the blower....assuming it hasn't been more then a year old at which point clearly it would need replacement anyways.....yes....that was sarcasm.....I could delete it but I'm proud of it so I will apologize instead....
We can simply agree to disagree and move on.....
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:48 AM
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Really? Why don't you list off your qualifications to come on here and preach the way you do? All I can tell from your posts is you're just a loud mouth with an opinion. List your certifications if you have any. Anybody else on here that is actually involved in engines for their living lists that info. You sure don't. You just shoot your mouth off and then get all indignant when somebody questions what you recommend. The only guys that you seem to hook are the newbies. Why is that, I wonder? Probably because the rest of us that have been around a while know bs when we see it. You're nothing on here but just another internet ghost with an opinion. Pity that most of your opinions are full of it and then you couple it with your condescending attitude.

Anybody that recommends porting 305 heads to put on a 350 is either delusional or on drugs. Not worth the time or the trouble. The fact that you do says all there is to know about your "skills".







Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
If you were to actually do this instead of firing off you mouth, you would know what we know.

ya a home porter can port these heads very very well. And the result is a head that flows more than a stock vortec head does.

Especially the recent mexico vortec casting which are down some 10 cfm compared to the good older Canadian made production 062 casting.

Are they the best head? No but they are dirt cheap an everywhere and DIY porting them is very very effective.

mid 230cfm is typical with a good effort and 1.94" valves Vortecs flow 228cfm in stock form. The newest flow less than that.

Are they a 500 horse head? nope but they will make 400+++ hp with supporting parts.

Get one and port a few ports for yourself and flow test. You will see.

Not all Canadians home port their 305 heads. Some of us play hockey. We know a bit about that too.

Last edited by The Camaro Kid; 12-29-2012 at 06:53 AM.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:23 AM
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Then your not reading all the right info.....I had a free set of 416 heads, had new guides already installed, I had some time, so i read, watched some video, and read some more....then bought a porting kit with assorted bits and went to town....my machine shop guy has been building motors for 35years, he thinks vortec's are amazing for what they are, but really likes working the 305 heads, says he makes big power for no money....loved what I did to mine, says it was an excellent port job, I needed to unshroud the chambers a bit more was it, so he did this, and cut them for 194 Intake valves free of charge, I went with those, a shim stye head gasket, and a small lunati cam similar or maybe even the same as you listed. A shtty performer intake, a stock Qjet Carb, Shorty headrs to side pipes, and 411 gears....it would destroy the tires at a 20k roll all day, it was an absolute blast....and other then the loud obnoxious side pipes looked stock....I'm not a moron with an RV cammed, 882 headed 350 that thinks I'm fast, the car was more then quick....everyone hates on the 305 heads, but most haven't bothered to try, or they bolt them on stock and expect the world....get mediocre results, and jump on the interweb to tell everyone how smart they are and how its a piss poor idea.....no, they are not for everyone, and if you have the cash to do a set of vortec's right, or like Vinnie said, the SHP180....Although at low and mid lift your better with vortec's or even shp200's....but regardless, yes there are better options, but I like cheap, and effective, and proving people wrong is an added bonus........ rant over.....thanks for listening....assuming you actually read it all....its 230am....and I'm bored....what can i say....

What about milling a 350 head down to 305 head chamber size? Same results only more expensive?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:36 AM
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Really? Why don't you list off your qualifications to come on here and preach the way you do? All I can tell from your posts is you're just a loud mouth with an opinion. List your certifications if you have any. Anybody else on here that is actually involved in engines for their living lists that info. You sure don't. You just shoot your mouth off and then get all indignant when somebody questions what you recommend. The only guys that you seem to hook are the newbies. Why is that, I wonder? Probably because the rest of us that have been around a while know bs when we see it. You're nothing on here but just another internet ghost with an opinion. Pity that most of your opinions are full of it and then you couple it with your condescending attitude.

Anybody that recommends porting 305 heads to put on a 350 is either delusional or on drugs. Not worth the time or the trouble. The fact that you do says all there is to know about your "skills".
Not sure who your addressing TCK.I'll open the door abit on my background.

When we stop counting 17 completely different 9.90 cars in 20 yrs that where purchased as incomplete financially distressed sales rollers and turned over in a resale for a profit after finishing them and a yr of racing turning it into a winner with the slips to prove it. Very good sponsorship deals for all but three yrs.Sales of overstock parts and refurnished high performance hard core parts.Built and sold engines for both the street and strip.Close association with many of the parts manufactures.In the business for what,40 yrs.Winner of a national event in Canada.Top 4 finish at a IHRA regional event.Current car has a 632 BBC Alky on the bottle alittle which we are very proud of to after all these yrs have built ourselfs up to.It's a 50k engine.Back up engine is a 565 BBC.Either my partner nor I drive the car anymore.There is a driver.Sum that up is both of us have gotten too old.

Me I have been involved in cars since I was 10 yrs old and I am 65 now.So what's that??.55 yrs.Came out of the ranks of mid ET bracket cars of various brackets.And yes I sure do miss that.Huge supporter of someone who is building a low 13/high 12 second car.Lots of rounds of competition and tons of fun.Many,many street hot rods over the yrs.

That's about it for now.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:48 AM
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I'm going to tell you what RHS told me behind closed doors yrs ago.That they invested huge into a CNC machine and hrs apond hrs of R & D to develop their own program. The thing is even after all the yrs they have been porting heads and with their most experienced porters,port to port matching was only within 25%. The labor hrs for that was out the door costs.More or less out of control and nonprofitable.That with their 5 axis CNC porting port to port matching was now within 5% and they could complete a set of heads start to finish in 8hrs.

It isn't the finish of a port that is most important nor the "rated intake runner size". In fact to smooth port true Vortec heads is counter productive. The rough surface is apart of what makes them Vortecs.What is most important is the cross section of the port and it's shape.

So what's my point about hand porting??. Well if you get a port to run port to port 25%,you just got very lucky because you just achieved the skill level of RHS's best hand porters.Do I suggest you run out and buy a CNC $250,000 machine??. Nope. Do I suggest you do a search on how to build a home use flow bench??. You bet I do. Flying blind is a bad end result. I am trying to make you aware of RHS's research and what you can expect with hand home porting.

Now 305 on 350's??. Increased SCR with under the best circumstances don't flow enough to make them worthwhile. Just the plain simple truth.
25% is clearly a number you just pulled out of the air. They are usally within 10% from the factory. A good port guy been doing it for years and smoke any cnc ported heads. You think indy and nascar use cnc only. They cnc bare castings and then start the close in work the cnc cant reach or cut properly. Every mm of the ports from carb to headers will be hand worked in nascar or indy engine. And in most fast race cars of all types.

I have done a lot of four valve and five valve heads in my day and i used to charge a crap load of money for it. To guys that had flow benches trust me 5% difference in ports would result in never hearing from that customer again cause his heads would perform less than stock heads.

Stock chevy and ford castings are so bad its easy to pick up a few hp. But i dont recommend you do it at home first time on your only working set of heads. Either do it rigth with a stack of practise heads and get the proper tools or get better heads. Knocking down ford exhuast bumps or other large casting marks is easy but most people go way to far and loose sight of the job before the first port is complete.

Its not hard to do a good port job at home but it does take some practise. And lots more practise and sometimes even a really bad port job will make some good power.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by The Camaro Kid View Post
Really? Why don't you list off your qualifications to come on here and preach the way you do? All I can tell from your posts is you're just a loud mouth with an opinion. List your certifications if you have any. Anybody else on here that is actually involved in engines for their living lists that info. You sure don't. You just shoot your mouth off and then get all indignant when somebody questions what you recommend. The only guys that you seem to hook are the newbies. Why is that, I wonder? Probably because the rest of us that have been around a while know bs when we see it. You're nothing on here but just another internet ghost with an opinion. Pity that most of your opinions are full of it and then you couple it with your condescending attitude.

Anybody that recommends porting 305 heads to put on a 350 is either delusional or on drugs. Not worth the time or the trouble. The fact that you do says all there is to know about your "skills".
As this was directed at fbird, and likely me as well,
Qualifications? None.....
I grew up in a "car" family
I'm not afraid to listen, to ALL opinions.
I will then form my own, and if I feel the info has merit I will gladly try it.
I have done a few total rebuilds with friends and lots of help
I have rebuilt two of my own with friends and lots of help
I have done a simple top end rebuild, cam, heads etc,on many of my own
I have spent 40+ hours porting those ridiculous heads you seem so offended by
I have had 5 cars in the last 3 years, all of them changed, rebuilt, finished, by me
Al of them worked well, are still working well and are being enjoyed often.
All of my stuff has done exactly what was intended. Be better, faster, and more fun then when I got it.
You need to learn to listen....its not always about what a piece of paper says, and your formulating an opinion with what? Four posts and a month on here?
The three best assets I have actually learned form have been FBird, Vinnie,and Tech Inspecter, they all have a different view, they don't always get along, and may even come across brash or rude at times....its the interweb kid, deal with it. But pay attention, any of them will help and teach you plenty if you stop getting sand in your vgina and actually listen.
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