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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by The Camaro Kid View Post
Really? Why don't you list off your qualifications to come on here and preach the way you do? All I can tell from your posts is you're just a loud mouth with an opinion. List your certifications if you have any. Anybody else on here that is actually involved in engines for their living lists that info. You sure don't. You just shoot your mouth off and then get all indignant when somebody questions what you recommend. The only guys that you seem to hook are the newbies. Why is that, I wonder? Probably because the rest of us that have been around a while know bs when we see it. You're nothing on here but just another internet ghost with an opinion. Pity that most of your opinions are full of it and then you couple it with your condescending attitude.

Anybody that recommends porting 305 heads to put on a 350 is either delusional or on drugs. Not worth the time or the trouble. The fact that you do says all there is to know about your "skills".
Not sure who your addressing TCK.I'll open the door abit on my background.

When we stop counting 17 completely different 9.90 cars in 20 yrs that where purchased as incomplete financially distressed sales rollers and turned over in a resale for a profit after finishing them and a yr of racing turning it into a winner with the slips to prove it. Very good sponsorship deals for all but three yrs.Sales of overstock parts and refurnished high performance hard core parts.Built and sold engines for both the street and strip.Close association with many of the parts manufactures.In the business for what,40 yrs.Winner of a national event in Canada.Top 4 finish at a IHRA regional event.Current car has a 632 BBC Alky on the bottle alittle which we are very proud of to after all these yrs have built ourselfs up to.It's a 50k engine.Back up engine is a 565 BBC.Either my partner nor I drive the car anymore.There is a driver.Sum that up is both of us have gotten too old.

Me I have been involved in cars since I was 10 yrs old and I am 65 now.So what's that??.55 yrs.Came out of the ranks of mid ET bracket cars of various brackets.And yes I sure do miss that.Huge supporter of someone who is building a low 13/high 12 second car.Lots of rounds of competition and tons of fun.Many,many street hot rods over the yrs.

That's about it for now.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
I'm going to tell you what RHS told me behind closed doors yrs ago.That they invested huge into a CNC machine and hrs apond hrs of R & D to develop their own program. The thing is even after all the yrs they have been porting heads and with their most experienced porters,port to port matching was only within 25%. The labor hrs for that was out the door costs.More or less out of control and nonprofitable.That with their 5 axis CNC porting port to port matching was now within 5% and they could complete a set of heads start to finish in 8hrs.

It isn't the finish of a port that is most important nor the "rated intake runner size". In fact to smooth port true Vortec heads is counter productive. The rough surface is apart of what makes them Vortecs.What is most important is the cross section of the port and it's shape.

So what's my point about hand porting??. Well if you get a port to run port to port 25%,you just got very lucky because you just achieved the skill level of RHS's best hand porters.Do I suggest you run out and buy a CNC $250,000 machine??. Nope. Do I suggest you do a search on how to build a home use flow bench??. You bet I do. Flying blind is a bad end result. I am trying to make you aware of RHS's research and what you can expect with hand home porting.

Now 305 on 350's??. Increased SCR with under the best circumstances don't flow enough to make them worthwhile. Just the plain simple truth.
25% is clearly a number you just pulled out of the air. They are usally within 10% from the factory. A good port guy been doing it for years and smoke any cnc ported heads. You think indy and nascar use cnc only. They cnc bare castings and then start the close in work the cnc cant reach or cut properly. Every mm of the ports from carb to headers will be hand worked in nascar or indy engine. And in most fast race cars of all types.

I have done a lot of four valve and five valve heads in my day and i used to charge a crap load of money for it. To guys that had flow benches trust me 5% difference in ports would result in never hearing from that customer again cause his heads would perform less than stock heads.

Stock chevy and ford castings are so bad its easy to pick up a few hp. But i dont recommend you do it at home first time on your only working set of heads. Either do it rigth with a stack of practise heads and get the proper tools or get better heads. Knocking down ford exhuast bumps or other large casting marks is easy but most people go way to far and loose sight of the job before the first port is complete.

Its not hard to do a good port job at home but it does take some practise. And lots more practise and sometimes even a really bad port job will make some good power.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by The Camaro Kid View Post
Really? Why don't you list off your qualifications to come on here and preach the way you do? All I can tell from your posts is you're just a loud mouth with an opinion. List your certifications if you have any. Anybody else on here that is actually involved in engines for their living lists that info. You sure don't. You just shoot your mouth off and then get all indignant when somebody questions what you recommend. The only guys that you seem to hook are the newbies. Why is that, I wonder? Probably because the rest of us that have been around a while know bs when we see it. You're nothing on here but just another internet ghost with an opinion. Pity that most of your opinions are full of it and then you couple it with your condescending attitude.

Anybody that recommends porting 305 heads to put on a 350 is either delusional or on drugs. Not worth the time or the trouble. The fact that you do says all there is to know about your "skills".
As this was directed at fbird, and likely me as well,
Qualifications? None.....
I grew up in a "car" family
I'm not afraid to listen, to ALL opinions.
I will then form my own, and if I feel the info has merit I will gladly try it.
I have done a few total rebuilds with friends and lots of help
I have rebuilt two of my own with friends and lots of help
I have done a simple top end rebuild, cam, heads etc,on many of my own
I have spent 40+ hours porting those ridiculous heads you seem so offended by
I have had 5 cars in the last 3 years, all of them changed, rebuilt, finished, by me
Al of them worked well, are still working well and are being enjoyed often.
All of my stuff has done exactly what was intended. Be better, faster, and more fun then when I got it.
You need to learn to listen....its not always about what a piece of paper says, and your formulating an opinion with what? Four posts and a month on here?
The three best assets I have actually learned form have been FBird, Vinnie,and Tech Inspecter, they all have a different view, they don't always get along, and may even come across brash or rude at times....its the interweb kid, deal with it. But pay attention, any of them will help and teach you plenty if you stop getting sand in your vgina and actually listen.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:58 AM
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And that wasn't a slight on anyone else's opinions, or offer to help....to be clear....there's many many talented, knowledgeable guys on here....I mentioned the 3 that have helped me tremendously, and clearly know their sht, and have had to listen to "I need help" pm's from me and have taken the time to do so....
Dave
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
25% is clearly a number you just pulled out of the air. They are usally within 10% from the factory. A good port guy been doing it for years and smoke any cnc ported heads. You think indy and nascar use cnc only. They cnc bare castings and then start the close in work the cnc cant reach or cut properly. Every mm of the ports from carb to headers will be hand worked in nascar or indy engine. And in most fast race cars of all types.

I have done a lot of four valve and five valve heads in my day and i used to charge a crap load of money for it. To guys that had flow benches trust me 5% difference in ports would result in never hearing from that customer again cause his heads would perform less than stock heads.

Stock chevy and ford castings are so bad its easy to pick up a few hp. But i dont recommend you do it at home first time on your only working set of heads. Either do it rigth with a stack of practise heads and get the proper tools or get better heads. Knocking down ford exhuast bumps or other large casting marks is easy but most people go way to far and loose sight of the job before the first port is complete.

Its not hard to do a good port job at home but it does take some practise. And lots more practise and sometimes even a really bad port job will make some good power.
Those numbers where later published in Engine Builder Mag.So I am confident they are reliable.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
Those numbers where later published in Engine Builder Mag.So I am confident they are reliable.
and might be why they almost went bye bye in the 90's


I can tell you this, not one port on any nascar 357 is the same and there is a purpose for it..
a cnc'd head with mirrored ports will slow the cars.. with a single plane intake.. let them run 8 throttle bodys over each cyl. then mirrored would win out.. not untill
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:18 AM
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Yeah but NASCAR has always had odd ball combo's.I bought at the Indy Drag Racers auction a NASCAR 4.3 and had contact with them until it was done.It is the reason why the teams start with rough forgings or a blank slate. We had been going to that auction for yrs and there was time when Indy cylinder heads ran the event.We got to know them and saw some of their exotic workmanship.Just works of art.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:43 PM
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No, 1Gary, that was not directed at you. And no, bygddy, it wasn't directed at you, even though for some reason you felt you had to reply after I said that the things you enjoyed with your boy while porting the heads justified it, but if you want' to continue to make a pissing match about it, by all means have at it.

It was directed to F-Bird88. I'd like to see the qualifications that he feels entitles him to talk down to people and say that his builds are the gospel. From what I've seen, he's no more qualified than anybody else. He just posts the most and the "loudest".
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by The Camaro Kid View Post
No, 1Gary, that was not directed at you. And no, bygddy, it wasn't directed at you, even though for some reason you felt you had to reply after I said that the things you enjoyed with your boy while porting the heads justified it, but if you want' to continue to make a pissing match about it, by all means have at it.

It was directed to F-Bird88. I'd like to see the qualifications that he feels entitles him to talk down to people and say that his builds are the gospel. From what I've seen, he's no more qualified than anybody else. He just posts the most and the "loudest".
Why don't you dig up a 305 head 4416 casting and port it yourself, to the best of your ability. Install 1.94x 1.60 valves. Get it flow tested. Then install it on a 350 and test it. And then come back here and tell me and everyone else that cares to listen that your result was any different than what I said the result would be. Anything less or anything more.
And what it cost you total cost.

Then do it again. Same experiment: Port the head, install the valves and test on a flow bench and then on a 350 test engine.
Even compare other heads to the heads you did, on the same 350 engine.
Put it on a dyno, run it down the drag strip, run it around a dirt track, hell just run it around on the street and see how you like it. Good or bad. Better or worse. than a stock head, than a vortec head or any other head you can dig up, beg borrow or steal. Bolt hem all on a try them out. good or bad expensive or cheap.
Test your heads, try a few friends best or worst efforts.

In other words put it to the test, yourself.
Until you have DONE IT YOURSELF you don;t know.

If/ when you were to actually do it for yourself, you will find your result will be real close to everything I said it will be. Hell, maybe better.

To start, just do one intake port on the head and get it flow tested.
rough in a 1.94" valve job and test with a old 1.94" valve on the flow bench.
Come back here and tell me I'm wrong.

Try to disprove it. By doing it.
I don't need your qualifications.. I trust ya.


Note: When you have done that,, we can compare qualifications.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 12-29-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:35 PM
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In fact go thru any of my old posts and follow the specific advise, recomendation, or recipe I offered,
exactly as stated, on what ever that question or problem was and DO IT YOUR SELF. And bring the results back here, YOUR RESULTS.

In other words DO it your self and try to see if it came out any different than I said It will.

Try to disprove what I said or advised. By doing it yourself to either prove it or disprove it.

We'll be waiting.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 12-29-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:44 PM
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The difference between me and Bydggy and you, is this.

We have both done this, ourselves. Already. And you have not...yet...

Thats a big difference. And all the qualification needed.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 03:06 PM
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No, the difference between you and I is I'm smart enough not to waste my time trying to turn boat anchors into gold.

Yeah, just as I thought. No qualifications or certs to back up what you say? Did you even graduate from high school or have you spent your entire life on here accumulating 7300 posts on here acting like you invented the internal combustion engine? I hear there's an ignore list. You're on it for sure and I hope others put you on theirs. You just give plain old bad advice with an attitude.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 03:51 PM
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I'm still waiting. And I have been insulted before. It didn't work. SO go find a set of the heads and get to it.
I'll be here.... Have a great day.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 04:00 PM
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Kid, you are clearly ignorant, F-BIRD'88 is a wealth of knowledge here.
You should take some time and refer back to some of his numerous posts and you will realise that his opinions are matter of fact and that advice that he generously offers to people here is good advice that actually facking works!
He has helped me and others tremendously.
This thread has gotten way of track and I hope the OP has gotten the information that he sought and some giggles along the way!

Duke
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2012, 04:22 PM
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Gary you can try to actually break a Stock General Motors made 350 SBC crank shaft using a Weiand 177 blower on a 350 YOU BUILT, Tested and Broke that crank shaft, YOURSELF.
Bring us that broken crankshaft, broke in that matter I stated, by you personally.
I'll be here waiting too.

Finding a crankshaft that has a crack in it and finishing it off with a big hammer does not count.
Has to be a stock GM 350 cast crankshaft that was broke by running it in YOUR 350 using a Weiand 177 supercharger on that motor.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 12-29-2012 at 04:48 PM.
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