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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 03:56 PM
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currently...

Oil has sit undisturbed now for a few hours and still no signs of Antifreeze, it is still just black. The oil was above full mark but now that I think about it the dip stick and pan are after market pieces so maybe the level isn't just right on the dipstick? This oil is the break in oil, wasn't time for a change but will be changed now. Still not sure why there was vapor coming from the valve cover hole, PCV and breather are in. I noticed on the breather when I removed it there was a little more than a thimble size amount of white oiley substance caked around it and inside it. This is an open element crankcase breather. There is not much adjustment in the timing in either direction before troubles start and same with the carb. I will try the ideas on the radiator to see if I can be sure it is full. That may be the reason it was overheating, not a full radiator. This is an air gap manifold and the mounting location for the T-stat is really high. My understanding of this that the water pump pumps water pressure against the T-stat as soon as the motor starts and when the T-stat opens it dumps into the radiator as the pump sucks cooler fluid from the bottom of the radiator at same time, right? Then the T-stat closes and the cycle repeats itself. I will take carb apart this evening and check it out. Could the timing gear jump a tooth and cause this situation? Should I do a leak down test and or radiator pressure check? Or am I just chasing ghost?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:05 PM
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alittle1...

The block didn't need clearanced at all. The Eagle kit comes already clearanced from the factory. We checked the pinch areas and had more than the mins. But I can see how what you are saying can happen. Judging by the amount of oil that came out in the buckets I would say there is 4 or 5 quarts there. If anything was going into the cylinders I would see smoke right? There is no noticeable smoke in exhaust at all. The electric pump made some rattling noises on the last start up, pressure bounced a little from 5 to 6.5 psi during it but sight glasses on the carb stayed steady.
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:28 PM
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If your timing had jumped you would'nt get 205psi comp.
Your probably seeing a little blow by out of the valve covers. Rings not broke in yet.
Oil is probably ok if you didn't see creamy crap. After draining the oil, fill up oil filter, if new, pour pan capacity of oil into engine, minus filter amount, and wait about 1/2 hour. Check the level on the dip stick a few times for consistency and mark the spot as the new "Full" mark.
Do like someone else said and run it without the radiator cap until you see the thermostat cycle a few times and add warm water each time as the level will drop until its full. May take awhile. Also make sure lower rad hose isn't collapsing at higher rpm.
You might see if you can borrow a carb from a friend or salvage yard to eliminate the demon. Heard bad things about them but no 1st hand knowledge except that summit doesn't sell em anymore. A lean carb will make it run hot. Also if its a new build sometimes they will run hot until things get broke in a little.
You don't recall mention of your comp. or cam specs. With a single plane, throttle response isn't great a lower rpms with a big cam. Harder to get the carb dialed in for me.
Hope it helps.PS I'm no mechanic.
ssmonty
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:45 PM
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ssmonty...

Thanks. All good info. I will do as you have said in the mourn. I have a Holley 850 on a 461 BBC that runs great so may be I will swap the two to see where I am at.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 08:50 PM
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The easest way to find out what is going on it get cooling system presure tester. Pump it up to 15 lbs and watch the needle. It should hold steady. If you dont have one most parts store will loan or rent one. If it is leaking you usually can hear it with presure on it.
I would pull the thermostat and fill it with just water, removing the thermostat will allow the system to fill near completly full with out needing a warm up.

How much coolant have you put in total. Its not unusual for a dry system with a large radiator to take 3-4 gallons or more.

If you had any substantial water in the oil when you pulled the drain plug you would have seen pure coolant for a while before the oil started comming out. The oil sits on top of the water.

Pull the plugs and see if any look cleaner than the others. If so you could have water getting into that cylinder.

Run the presure test and see what happens and get back to us

Chet
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2008, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg
as far as the stumble off the line and seeing its a demon carb remove the bowls and clean out the metal chips (BG carbs are notorius for garbage in the bowl area straight from the factory)
then adjust your pump shot primaries and secondaries
for your fix probly a bigger cam.
as far as the coolant you probly gotta burp the system a bit to really fill the block and radiator.
water in the oil will show up in the pan as a milky mess.
Dawg... you keep posting this everytime someone has a carburetor issue but the fact is that we have admitted on more than 1 forum that we had problems with chips about a year and a half ago and listed the steps we took to correct them. Since that time the number of carburetors we see for warranty claims with metal chips has just about stopped. This particular member appears to have 2 different issues but I believe I would diagnose the coolant loss first.

Last edited by Tech @ BG; 07-08-2008 at 02:21 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro freak
We built a 383 SBC that is all fresh using an Eagle kit and used 350 block that was given to us. We had a NAPA shop clean it, do the .030 over bore, inspect the block and freeze plugs and cam bearings. We installed everything following every step in the rebuild book to the point. We installed a roller cam, lifters, and rockers setup. Vortec heads that we bought new and only put about 1,000 miles on them with the previous engine we had. Double roller timing chain set. A nice single plane intake. A new HEI distributor. A new 750 Speed Demon carb. All new wires, plugs, electric fuel pump with reg set at 5 psi. A new dual electric fan setup on radiator. We set timing at about 10 deg then hooked up advance. I noticed there was not much adjusting we can do on the timing before we have problems idling or run on issues so we left it at 10 because it seemed to be happy there. We adjusted the carb per instructions and got the engine to idle pretty good and even accelerated pretty good while setting in park and had no temp problems. We went for a test spin and noticed that when we stepped on the gas we had a hard stumble followed by a fluttering spitting and sputtering that choked the engine to almost dying but then a slight recovery with the engine having just enough power to keep rolling the car but sounding fluttery and sputtering. We traveled about 1/4 mile with it only recovering a little when we noticed the engine temp gauge was buried in the red. We pulled over and shut the car off. We could hear boiling so we just turned on the fans and waited until it cooled down. We started the car and it started good and idled decent. So we decided to just drive it slowly home. We went maybe 1/8 mile and it was pegging the red again on temp. We got it home let it cool. Radiator was half empty. Filled radiator. I started it. Idle was good. I noticed some steam coming from the valve cover breather hole. It didn't seem like that much really just a slight whisper of vapor. The car has Aluminum tall valve covers and I was told that some condensation will form in there. I decided to do a compression test. The lowest was 195 and the highest was 205. I came out the next day and noticed the radiator was half full looked under the car, didn't notice any leaks so I filled it and moved the car off the driveway and to storage for the week. Today I wanted to mess with it some more so I pulled it on to the driveway and after it cooled checked the radiator. Again it was half full. I am not sure where it is going because I don't see any leaks. I added UV leak detector and will fill it again later. I am gonna replace the t-stat this afternoon but I am wondering what is going on?
The instructions call for the Speed Demon to have 14-16 degrees of timing and 10 is not going to be enough. Is the 750 an annular or downleg version? How much duration at .050 does the cam have? Which port is the vacuum line hooked up to on the carburetor for the vacuum advance? Also as one of the other members posted if you have not tried the presurized coolant tester we would recommend doing that as well.

Last edited by Tech @ BG; 07-08-2008 at 02:23 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2008, 07:02 PM
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Tech @ BG...

Awesome to have you folks on to offer some help. I ordered the radiator tester on Monday and I am still waiting for it. The carb is a Mighty Demon 750 CFM Annular. The cam specs are: Comp Cams roller PN# 12-432-8 Gross lift Int .510 Ext .520 Dur at .050 is Int 230 Exh 236 Lobe sep 110. No water has shown up in the oil samples I have, even after setting all night.
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro freak
Awesome to have you folks on to offer some help. I ordered the radiator tester on Monday and I am still waiting for it. The carb is a Mighty Demon 750 CFM Annular. The cam specs are: Comp Cams roller PN# 12-432-8 Gross lift Int .510 Ext .520 Dur at .050 is Int 230 Exh 236 Lobe sep 110. No water has shown up in the oil samples I have, even after setting all night.
Thanks, we have been here for awhile as you can tell from our post count so once you get the water issue straightened out and start tuning the carb let us know. The annular 750 should work fine on the combination but as mentioned be sure and raise the base timing on up. You may also want to bring #1 up to tdc and verify the timing marks line up with the balancer to make sure the balancer hasn't spun or anything and that they line up together as well.
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:20 AM
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If you had a coolant leak in the engine, the oil will look like the center of a 3 muketeers bars. Not to mension if the rad was half full then the oil would have been at least 4 inches above on the stick. That you would have able to notice even with a concusion
Did you happen to put sealer around the coolant passages on the intake and head? You may have a leak in the gasket sucking coolant from the coolant passage to one of the runners. Plastic o-ring gaskets are good for this. How do the plugs look????

I'm not sure the single plane intake is a good choice for the street and vortec heads. The cam is not that big either. Do you have a stall converter??

Check to make sure you are not off a tooth on the distributor.

Last edited by n-gin; 07-09-2008 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:12 PM
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continued..

I am very confident that I am not getting water in the oil. There is nothing coming out of the exhaust. If I had a leak from water port to intake runner would it show up in the exhaust? I will check that balancer. I also want to get a vacuum reading. I got the radiator tester today. I will check that in the mourn. Thanks.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:58 PM
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Bad rad cap?
Not sealing allowing for coolant to drain out, then went it cools allows air in instead of sighening from overflow.
Maybe no leak just an air pocket.
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Old 07-10-2008, 02:20 PM
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n-gin...

n-gin, I think you nailed it. I replaced cap and filled radiator. So far so good. Now if that problem is solved I have to go to work on the BG carb. I think it is why the engine is running bad. At an idle it seems terribly rich and there is a hint of black in the exhaust. I am starting to suspect the power valve. I will get a vac reading when my son gets home.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:26 PM
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BG-tech...

Ok here is the latest. I set idle at 700 rpm (just enough to keep it running), I set Int. timing at 10 deg adv. I plugged the dist. advance back up and adjusted idle to 1,000 rpm. I had a bouncing vacuum from 30" to 33" at idle and in gear I was at 700 rpm and had a bouncing vacuum from 18" to 21". At this point there is a hard fluttering acceleration every time I punch the peddle. Temperature is staying around 180- 190 deg. Now I moved to the 4 corner idle screws. I adjust each until I got vacuum to a bouncing 35" to 37" at 1,000 rpm idle and a bouncing 19" to 22" in gear at 700 rpm. Still have a hard fluttering acceleration as I punch the peddle however it seems just a bit better. Next I adjusted the idle ease screw for the most vacuum which was where it was already at. Still have the same off idle slow hard fluttering acceleration when I peg the peddle. Any thoughts?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:36 PM
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Are you sure on the vacuum readings, dont think I have ever seen any in the 30's before
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