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Old 12-05-2013, 06:14 PM
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Needing "Pull Power"!

I have a one tone high-boy dually that I'm installing a new timing chain set-up and a new distributor along with a dual plane high-rise. My Cloyes double roller timing set has an option to use three different positions for normal, retarded or advanced timing. It states that the advanced is for more low-end torque. Said all that to ask this;
Should I use the advanced notch for the key-way? And what's my degree setting after I get all of this installed? Also, I'm running a 650 Edelbrock carb and the distributor is a new ProComp HEI.
I'm just looking for a good, strong low-end torque for pulling and hauling.
It's taken me two years and a combination of a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and two 1 ton trucks to make this truck. I got tired of looking for a one ton dually 4 wheel drive with a dump bed ... so I made one. Now I want it to be as strong as it looks! (that's it in my profile pic) It has been a labor of love (except for the cussin") and since I'm now 63, I expect it to last at least as long as I do. The name "Red Mule" came from the fact that it is made from two Chevy trucks and two GMC's.

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Old 12-05-2013, 06:35 PM
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post your parts list including cam specs.If all the parts are correctly matched then confirm the in the 0ļ that the zero is correct and put it together.some timing sets are not perfect out of the box
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:41 PM
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1. What make?
2. What year?
3. What motor? What cubic inches?
4. What static compression ratio?
5. What rear gear?
6. What cam?
We can't read your mind.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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The timing slipped and I pulled the cover off to reveal a VERY sloppy chain. I didn't build this engines but suspect it is pretty much stock. I have no cam specs.
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Old 12-05-2013, 06:57 PM
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I guess more information would be helpful.
78 GMC
350 cu. in. 4 bolt
4:56 gears
11:1 compression
Cam specs are unknown at this time but I'll be sticking an RV cam in soon.
I suspect it is stock though.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:19 PM
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RV ? cam and 11:1 cr? I think the engine needs to come apart,,,,
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:57 PM
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You said you didn't know the motor specs, but suspect it's probably stock or close to it, what makes you think it has a true 11:1 c.r.?
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:37 AM
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Are the heads stock GM or aftermarket? Personally if I went through all that trouble to build a truck like that, I would be looking at a diesel and not a 350. 6BT mated to an NV4500 or an NV5600 better yet. That would out live both of us put together. But that's where budget comes into play.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:19 PM
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nick8 >>> PRECISELY MY POINT!
Not actually trying to build it so much as trying to add a few components for more low-end torque.
I believe it is mostly stock truck cam, compression ratio, heads and horsepower with 4:56 gears.
I guess there are no simple answers that a guy can find for these questions. Upon doing a night's worth of research, I've found that the only thing I can really do is put these components together and hope for the best like we did in the old days. We also wound up buying long blocks and starting over after we grenaded one from not doing it right. I am ASSUMING certain aspects to this engine because I am ASSUMING it's a stock truck engine. Since I left my planet and moved to one with a yellow sun, my x-ray vision just ain't what it used to be. So, consequently, I've had to resort to pulling things apart to see what's inside. Wasn't really wanting to go that route at this point.
So, one question; will I get better low-end torque from my STOCK 350 by putting a dual plane intake in da thing??
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:37 PM
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your stock 350 comes with a dual plane intake, likely doesn't have close to 11:1 compression, and likely needs a rebuild if it is factory original.

If you really want a long lasting dependable engine I'd be swapping in a newer engine, if you want a lot of pulling power I'd be looking at a diesel too.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe'sRedMule View Post
nick8 >>> PRECISELY MY POINT!
Not actually trying to build it so much as trying to add a few components for more low-end torque.
I believe it is mostly stock truck cam, compression ratio, heads and horsepower with 4:56 gears.
I guess there are no simple answers that a guy can find for these questions. Upon doing a night's worth of research, I've found that the only thing I can really do is put these components together and hope for the best like we did in the old days. We also wound up buying long blocks and starting over after we grenaded one from not doing it right. I am ASSUMING certain aspects to this engine because I am ASSUMING it's a stock truck engine. Since I left my planet and moved to one with a yellow sun, my x-ray vision just ain't what it used to be. So, consequently, I've had to resort to pulling things apart to see what's inside. Wasn't really wanting to go that route at this point.
So, one question; will I get better low-end torque from my STOCK 350 by putting a dual plane intake in da thing??
I hear you loud and clear Joe, my X-Ray vision doesn't work well on this rock either.

Let's try to apply deduction to your question about a dual-plane intake. Have you ever seen a carbureted single-plane intake motor from the factory? I'm talking vehicles that are stock, run-of-the-mill everyday drivers. 99.9% of the cars/trucks sold are used to make trips to the grocery store or for grandma to drive to bingo or for family outings or in the case of trucks, to haul a load at low rpm's. These tasks dictate that the motor should make power at low rpm's, so the factories have deduced that a dual-plane intake will do the job better than a single plane intake.

If I were tasked with helping you to choose parts and pieces for the motor, I would need to know more about it. It is not possible to choose the proper camshaft for a motor without knowing the exact static compression ratio because you must coordinate the intake closing point of the camshaft with the static compression ratio of the motor. Therefore, I would be yanking the heads off to figure out what I was starting with.

I'm guessing that you have spent a few years on this planet, just as I have. I will confess that in the early years, I too just threw anything together and hoped for the best, because I lacked the knowledge to do it correctly. Today though, there is enough information to allow you to get it correct the first time if you begin with the proper information about what you have.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:55 PM
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Point taken into advisement techinspector1.
I guess I do need more answers before asking the questions. Back to the old drawing board.
And ... Thanks To You All!!
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:12 PM
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pull the heads off and check for the bore wear and drop the pan and check the bearings.

If either are worn (99% of the time they will be in your scenario) then it is far cheaper to get a good low miles running used engine (LOW MILES) than it is to fix what you have.

At your age I understand the "I don't want to bother learning anything new" attitude which may prevent you from going to EFI. A well maintained and tuned carb engine should still give you 100,000+ miles of use.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe'sRedMule View Post
nick8 >>> PRECISELY MY POINT!
Not actually trying to build it so much as trying to add a few components for more low-end torque.
I believe it is mostly stock truck cam, compression ratio, heads and horsepower with 4:56 gears.
I guess there are no simple answers that a guy can find for these questions. Upon doing a night's worth of research, I've found that the only thing I can really do is put these components together and hope for the best like we did in the old days. We also wound up buying long blocks and starting over after we grenaded one from not doing it right. I am ASSUMING certain aspects to this engine because I am ASSUMING it's a stock truck engine. Since I left my planet and moved to one with a yellow sun, my x-ray vision just ain't what it used to be. So, consequently, I've had to resort to pulling things apart to see what's inside. Wasn't really wanting to go that route at this point.
So, one question; will I get better low-end torque from my STOCK 350 by putting a dual plane intake in da thing??


I hear you. If you have a single plane, then a dual plane should serve you better. If pulling the engine and disassembling it is out of the question, that's about all you can change on it without running into potential problems. As far as making it pull harder, maybe go to a lower gear. Is it a manual or auto?
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:45 PM
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ap72, EFI is definitely out of the question. Anything that has to do with computers or chips is out. Itís not that I donít want to learn anything new. Itís more about buying gauges and equipment for those applications. Just a guy back up in the mountains that wants his truck to pull as hard as is necessary.
nick8, itís a 350 set in front of a 400 t/h with 4:56 gears. Iím sure that the tranny is in good condition but the domino effect of a stronger engine vs the same tranny might bring about adverse effects as well.

The dual plane intake I was referring to is an aluminum high-rise that I have laying around and is left over from a project I sold. It was the last motor I built for a 70 El Camino and was a 350 4 bolt main with hump heads with Z28 springs and a lightening street pro cam. It was topped off with a Holley spread-bore 650 with some sort of power valve protector. A guy named Keith Ball taught me most of the stuff. He designed the ďKing RatĒ and it went 222.222 mph on the salt flats in 73. Lost track of the guy.
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