New Big Block Chevy build, would like some input - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:18 PM
chevykid90's Avatar
454, what turns your crank?
 

Last journal entry: Replacing bearings and crank
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, Washington
Age: 24
Posts: 337
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
New Big Block Chevy build, would like some input

ok so some of you might remember when i built a 454 for my 81 Firebird. needless to say i have ran the piss out of her, took the RPM's way higher than i ever should have taken them with the parts i used and now she is started to retaliate by breaking push rods about every other day, even broke a few lifters and valve guides..
i have since reenlisted so that i could deploy to Afghanistan here in a few months so when i get back the wife has allowed me to take a few grand and put it towards a complete brand new motor that will be able to hold up to my driving style. the block i have is bored .030 and am hoping i wont have to bore it out again just give it a good hone. i have a set of 049 heads, and from what i have read prior to building my first motor was that they arent a bad set of cast heads. now i will be redoing the rear end to what motor i build ie: gear ratio. the only thing that i am going to keep the same is my TH350 since i have built it to withstand anything i bolt up to it. now i will have a budget of hopefully no more than $4,000. now the power range i am looking for is around 650-700 HP&TQ i like to drive my car more than just twice a week so i dont want just ridiculous power to where i cant drive it with the wife and kid. but would like it to run respectable times down the track.
i have been looking at my cam selection since with my knowledge the cam should be picked first and everything else is built around it. now i have been looking at a lot of websites and there are endless choices for a cam: solid, hydr, solid roller, hyd roller, mechanical roller, flat tappet. i want to go with a full roller setup for my valve train, so any input on what kind of cam grind, or hydr Vs solid would be helpful. i understand the difference between the two as far as adjusting them and the difference in valve lash and with hydr i really only have to do it once appose to solid it should be done every 10000 miles or so.
i am also going to be running on just motor, no power adders like nitrous or a super charger. (i seem to get better satisfaction out of beating someone on just pure power) so what kind of pistons, crank, rods should i go with? i know that i could go with a forged steel crank and spend $2,000 but i would like to know what i could get that is going to hold up to what i want to do and not empty my wallet.

so again the only thing staying the same in the car is the TH350, and the same block. and going to try to cut some weight off the ungodly 4,300 lbs curb weight. thanks for reading such a long post. if you have any websites for some blue printed big blocks that meet what i am looking for that would be good to.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 3
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Go to comp cams website and download Camquest 6. Its free and a really awesome program. First pull up chevy 454 and then fiddle around with different motor options and it will find cams for your build with full cam specs. Try to put in exact measurements for bore/stroke/chamber ccs/valve sizes. If your not happy with what it gives you change catagories and bump up compression, or put in custom head flows, change stall ratios, valve trains, exhaust, carbs,... Its really easy to get a hang of. I'm using it to build a ford big block 460 for an airboat. Computed 586ftlbs of torque at 2800rpm on a mild build thanks to the cam selections. And if i need "getting unstuck" power, a 100 shot of nos is 989ftlbs at 2800rpm!

Have fun and I hope this helps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:34 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 218
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Be very cautious with the numbers Camquest gives you.

Just for giggles, I put in a street/strip 2200-5800 rpm 496 bbc combo with AFR 305 CNC chamber heads. With Comp Cams XR282HR cam, a high-flow dual plane, and large tube headers with mufflers, it projected 624 hp @ 6000 and 625 ft-lb @ 4500. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me this sounds high with a .510/.510 lift, 110 LSA hydraulic roller.

I ran the same combo through Desktop Dyno 2003, and it came up with quite a bit less on both numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:44 AM
68NovaSS's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Working with chromed bolts
Last journal entry: New to me T-Bucket
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nine Mile Falls/Suncrest, WA
Posts: 5,247
Wiki Edits: 9

Thanks: 104
Thanked 133 Times in 124 Posts
Being an avid hot rodder, I love power, but you don't think 650-700 HP/TQ in a street car is "ridiculous", for a wife and child to endure? Pretty aggressive to say the least.

Not that those numbers can't be made with some level of reliability, but choose your parts wisely. Good luck and have fun.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 08:55 AM
matts37chev's Avatar
I don't understand?
 

Last journal entry: this is only a test
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Shelton,Wa.
Age: 45
Posts: 2,420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
sounds like your build is about what i want in my car.
for my motor build i ended up buying a cheap 454 core.
getting a scat cast stroker assembly was cheaper (and stronger) than having the old parts checked and refurbished.
a good hyd. flat tappet cam (a little bigger roller would be better for what you want).
and some 781 or 049 heads with a clean up and some big vavles.
i feel like a moderate 496 will do everything you want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:03 PM
chevykid90's Avatar
454, what turns your crank?
 

Last journal entry: Replacing bearings and crank
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, Washington
Age: 24
Posts: 337
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i was thinking about going the stroker route, just wanted some input to see what other people have experimented with and what worked for them and what didnt. since the 454 in my car is the first big block that i have ever built i havent had the chance to experiment for myself. the only thing that i am a little worried about it my block is only a 2 bolt main. i have heard that a bolt upgrade will make it able to hold more power. plus i dont really think that what i will be building is going to take it to its limits.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:09 PM
chevykid90's Avatar
454, what turns your crank?
 

Last journal entry: Replacing bearings and crank
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, Washington
Age: 24
Posts: 337
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68NovaSS
Being an avid hot rodder, I love power, but you don't think 650-700 HP/TQ in a street car is "ridiculous", for a wife and child to endure? Pretty aggressive to say the least.
lol, i am a little confused on what you mean by this? is it the power is to aggressive for them, or what i said about 650-700 TQ/HP being ridiculous power?? my kid loves the power i have now, i can always hear him in the back making engine sounds when i shift. my wife just gets a little scared sometimes because she is surprised at how fast i get up to speed on the highway. (i think its funny). although my friends do get annoyed at me because i rarely will ever speed in the car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:33 PM
matts37chev's Avatar
I don't understand?
 

Last journal entry: this is only a test
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Shelton,Wa.
Age: 45
Posts: 2,420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
what kind of power does your old motor make?
the H.P and TQ. numbers you are talking about are pretty high for a daily driver
a two bolt block and aftermarket cast crank can take more abuse than most people think.
but your comment about too high of R.P.M. s make me nervous
what kind of R.P.M. s we talking about? more than 6000-6500?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2010, 10:50 PM
chevykid90's Avatar
454, what turns your crank?
 

Last journal entry: Replacing bearings and crank
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, Washington
Age: 24
Posts: 337
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
well now that i think about it something must be horribly wrong with my motor because i dont take it above 5,000 and i have broke about 7 push rods so far and now i am up to 7 lifters. 4 of them have had the inside guts just shoot out of them and the other 3 have had the bottoms warn so bad that it put a hole in the bottom and they just shoot oil down instead of up. i run 20w 50 oil and i always have between 40-50psi at start up, once it warmed up it will sit at 20psi at 800 RPM idle at it tops out at about 65psi at 2,500 RPM. is it just because they are cheap lifters??

i have never had it on a dyno but when i computed it online it said about 500TQ and 475HP.
the specs to my motor are 454 bored .030, 049 heads with stock valve size nothing special done to them, stock rockers, edelbrock Performer RPM cam(.550in, .550 ex) comp lifters, 3/8ths push rods, spring upgrade for the lift of cam, flat top pistons, stock crank and rods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:09 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,023
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
way too much lift for stock rockers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:45 AM
matts37chev's Avatar
I don't understand?
 

Last journal entry: this is only a test
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Shelton,Wa.
Age: 45
Posts: 2,420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
yep, sounds like not enough travel on the rocker arm slots
i would start with popping those heads off and making sure no damage has been done to them.
check the rocker mounting studs, and springs etc.
odds are you have hurt your cam,lifters and push rods.
and there is alot of stuff floating around inside.
i would get a new cam and lifters, the grind you had was just fine, i'd do it again or something similar.
you will need new push rods and rockers also.
then while the heads are on the bench and you are checking them out,
i would do some port work, and if you want spend some more money than that, have them cut for larger valves first.
those heads can make some nice power for the street they just need to be dressed up.

Last edited by matts37chev; 12-15-2010 at 08:14 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2010, 07:50 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Your cam is totally, well and truly wasted- any driving or running of this engine in its current state is just compounding the damage already done to the bearings, etc. from the cam and lifter debris that's now floating all throughout the engine.

The engine needs to come completely apart for a thorough cleaning before being reassembled. All the oil gallery plugs along w/the cam bearings (if it was me) need to also come out to get these critical areas cleaned of the steel filings.

There's a good chance that new rings and a hone will be all the cylinders need, but this will need to be verified.

Don't be too surprised if the crank needs turned. You'll want to use new bearings on the rods and mains, regardless. Check the oil pump carefully for wear, if there's ANY doubt, replace it.

Obviously, a new valve train is in order, too. I'd suggest you go w/a good set of 1.7 roller rockers, the cam of your choice, a thick-wall set of pushrods sized to give you the correct valve train geometry, and if there's ANY way to budget for it, a set of Profiler heads (or similar), like shown in the CC build, HERE.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:19 AM
matts37chev's Avatar
I don't understand?
 

Last journal entry: this is only a test
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Shelton,Wa.
Age: 45
Posts: 2,420
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
this would also be good time to switch to a roller cam setup
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:35 AM
cobalt327's Avatar
WFO
 
Last wiki edit: Intake manifold
Last journal entry: 1980 Malibu Wagon
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta
Age: 59
Posts: 5,037
Wiki Edits: 1616

Thanks: 128
Thanked 597 Times in 546 Posts
Not a bad idea, swapping to a roller cam.

BBC's are notorious for not rotating the lifters immediately on start up- which is a MUST for a flat tappet cam to break in properly. To help assure this, measure the lifter bores and if needed, hone them to give the correct clearance. Even if the clearances are correct, be sure to use a solvent like acetone and a shotgun bristle brush to scrub any and all varnish, etc. from the lifter bores. Use some light oil immediately after cleaning to prevent surface flash rusting.

There are also options like grooving the lifter bores or using solid lifters w/EDM holes in the bottom if you go w/a solid flat tappet cam. Some cam manufacturers offer a nitride treatment (Comp Cams is one, cost ~$100 over the cost of the cam alone).

Also it's necessary to use moly cam break-in lube on the cam lobes and lifter bottoms and break-in additives added to the oil, like ZDDPlus, etc.. The engine has to run at or above about 2000-2500 RPM for at least 15 minutes, and shouldn't be idled at all until the break-in's complete. Or follow the cam manufacturer's guidelines if in doubt.

Techinspector1 has a cam break-in guide that he's offered up here before, you can do a search for it.

One thing else, replacing bad lifters w/new ones won't work. Like you've found out the hard way. Once a lifter comes out concaved, the cam and lifters are history.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2010, 10:56 PM
chevykid90's Avatar
454, what turns your crank?
 

Last journal entry: Replacing bearings and crank
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Newport, Washington
Age: 24
Posts: 337
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
its a good thing that i am planning on rebuilding this engine completely because my cam is on horrible shape.. took off the intake again today and i lost a lobe on the exhaust valve 6th cylinder. and i also found a lot of metal shavings on the inside. could improper cam break in be the culprit for some of this? and yes i have been looking into doing a full roller valve train set up for the new build. should i go with a solid or hyd cam? or at the level my engine will be at will it just be a personal preference? i understand the difference between the two and how each works.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
big block or small block chevy 69YENKONOVA Engine 81 05-13-2010 07:26 AM
Big Block Chevy ... How much does a block weigh Rob Keller Hotrodders' Lounge 5 03-24-2008 06:10 PM
4 bbl on big and small block Chevy Quick 58 Engine 1 11-21-2007 04:40 PM
Big Block chevy interchange projectjohn Engine 5 12-07-2005 03:27 PM
Two bolt main Big block chevy HTHarry427 Engine 5 06-19-2004 10:23 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.