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New to bodywork, need some advice

5K views 41 replies 11 participants last post by  69 widetrack 
#1 ·
I have just started doing body work on by truck bed and I have a couple of questions.

I am spending quite a bit of money on this thing so I don't want to cut corners.

As you can see from the picture below the box has seen better days, a typical work truck. No rust and very few big dents but lots of small dings.




I started pulling the dings with my stud welder and slide hammer and made some good progress. My question is should I be happy with the results or should I be trying for a better finish before going to primer and filler. I can't get to the back side with a dolly so I'm not sure how I would go about getting it better.


photo[4] by kmatlock40

I haven't did anything to the closest dent.

I ask these questions only because I will obsess over it unless I know it is "Good"
 
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#2 ·
Not sure what year that truck is, but there is a lot of aftermarket parts available for these that would make it much easier to repair. You are going to have filler from one end to the other and if you are asking this question, you have no prior experience. Getting something straight comes from experience and this project, from the pictures you supplied, show this project is not for a beginner. With stud guns, you should be able to get the dents just about out with minor filling. Good luck.
 
#3 ·
not the news he wants to hear but he said he's putting a lot of $$$ into this. I agree, that bedside is a A LOT of work even for a pro.

Kevin, I hate to say it but if you don't do bodywork and are attempting to straighten that bedside YOU are the shortcut and you need to pay somebody to do that for you. Not trying to knock your ability but it's not easy.
 
#4 ·
I'd try and find a less "worked" bed to start with for your project on craigslist or the junkyard. You can always keep this one and at least use it as something to cut your teeth on. A lot can be learned by just getting in there and getting dirty, as long as you've got someone with know-how helping you out.
 
#5 ·
If you are going to do this bed, if you are dead set on doing it (it is a biggie) you are on the right track. You can continue to stud up those low spots and tap down any high spots you can refine it a more before you apply filler.
What you want to do is break it down into small enough steps that you can do it. That is the cool thing about this stuff, most anyone can do it if you break it down into small enough steps.

What you need to do now is get a long board and run it over the top of a small section with some fine sand paper, 120-180-220 it really don't matter. A vexon metal file would also work, but I doubt you have one, so a "long board" an 18" sanding board like this will do the trick.


Running this over that primed metal will show you the high and the low spots. You can keep pulling on those low spots with a stud welder and taping down the high spots until that metal is darn near perfect if you want, you are well on your way to that!

This is a very cool tool for doing this, instead of a slide hammer to pull on the studs like the stud kit comes with, this allows you much more control.



There are zillions of places to get one but here is the first I found on line. http://www.autoparts2020.com/rsdev/part_detail.jsp?PART_HDR_ID=103068

After you do that then we are talking about applying and sanding filler, but that is five or ten steps down the road. Stick with where you are at a little while longer.

Brian
 
#6 ·
Brian - I hate you! You keep showing cool tools that I think I need and I keep spending,spending,spending, LOL.

In the past I have always used a pair of vice grips and a board, levering the vice grips over the board to pull on the tip, it works but this tool looks to be far faster easier to use :)

That is one tool I will be acquiring immediately if the local supplier has it for a reasonable price.

I found it at ToolDiscounter for $31, but their shipping is $17.

@ 15# it is a substantial piece and shipping is expensive.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the responses guys. I know if I keep picking at it I will keep making progress. My thought is to get is as close as I can and the pass it on to a body man to complete it.

The problem with getting a new box is that they don't reproduce the short box. This is good compared to what I can find around here. If you can find a short box they are usually badly rusted and they are a farm truck so I wouldn't be much further ahead. You can buy long bed panels but they need to be shortened and the quality of the jobber panels are not of great quality.
 
#12 ·
I have sold a lot of items on ebay shipping them all over the world, I am not kidding shipping to Canada is the biggest pain, it's right there, I have driven into Canada yet is is easier and cheaper to send something around the earth to Japan or something, wild.

Brian
 
#16 ·
It's no different if you live here either Brian...I can wire money to anywhere in the World cheaper than I can wire money 50 miles from where I live by Western Union.

I can fly almost anywhere in the World cheaper than I can fly 500 miles away from where I live in Canada...I don't get it either.

Ray
 
#17 ·
Kevin, don't let all the "Pros" who do this stuff for a living intimidate you into thinking you can't do this. When I was fourteen years old my dad brought home a basket case 69' Camaro on a trailer, bought me a can of bondo, some sandpaper and metalworking tools and said have at it. I ended up working at a body shop after I finished this car, the car got me hired. Anybody can learn body work, any body can do body work. Not everybody can do it perfect though. Even if you don't find you like doing it, a competent repair job is still possible.

Getting sheet metal straight ain't that hard. Doing it the "right way" takes allot of time and will be hard for a newbie though. It's hard work. You don't have to hand hammer and massage every dent out like it's a chip foose project. Anything up to an 1/8" of filler is an acceptable repair.

Looking at the pictures, the cheapest way to do this is to fix it yourself. You will need to take it down to bare metal and give a skim coat of filler over most of the body panels and then block sand until it is straight. Anything you can feel with your hand will be seen by the naked eye when paint is applied. Nothing too difficult to accomplish here.

Follow the instructions on all the cans of product and take your time, patience is everything on the bodywork. Get a bodywork handbook from the library or your local book store.

If you don't plan on laying on the paint after it's prepped, you may want to find a paint shop that will work with you and give you advice as well as working out with them what primers you are going to use before they top coat it. Some shops will not touch a DIY prep job. Some shops will be more than happy to do any welding for you too. While getting harder to find not every shop is some snotty resto-boutique with noses help up high in the air sniffing out the depth of people's pockets.

Grind off some paint, add some filler and start sanding. A two by four makes a great poor man's sanding block on the large flat areas. Contemplating a job of this scope is more torture than just getting out there and doing it.
 
#18 · (Edited)
no one is trying to intimidate him. He said he wanted no short cuts and is paying a lot for this project. Well, the only shortcut I see is his own work. Everyone who does this work at one point could NOT control the outcome and there's nothing worse than thinking something is gonna turn out good but it doesn't. THAT is why it was suggested he have somebody do it. Anybody can do it, but that doesn't mean they're doing it good or to their liking.

I've seen so many guys spend tons of money and they all hit a road block when it comes to the body work. When it's done it looks like crap or maybe they should have airbrushed a surfer on the side to go along with all those waves-lol and mind you we're talking about waves you can see in pics. If you can see it in a pic it's probably a tsunami in real life.

I would suggest he take to a "pro" or else expect waves. Plain and simple. Does it himself there WILL be waves.
 
#19 ·
I have to agree, I don't think anybody here was trying to intimidate the OP. When I first read this thread, several members had already posted and I felt I didn't have anything to add that would have made a difference and agreed with what was posted. I read what the Op said very carefully and because of what the OP said, I'm sure that this is what prompted the responses that he got. I respect the Op for stating how he felt about what he was doing, how he wanted things to be done right, the fact that he would obsess if what he had done so far, or what he may do in the future wouldn't be done correctly. Giving advice on how to do things is difficult, wording it so that whomever your trying to give advice to completely understands often is next to impossible, no matter how much command you may have of the English language, what you write and what the person reading what you wrote, may be translated in a completely different light.

Telling somebody how to do things is like school...showing people how to do things is more like real life and in my opinion goes a lot further in teaching. Sometimes trying to pass on knowledge can be frustrating, on the internet, anyone who has done this before for a living has the benefit of is, writing and posting pictures. The hands on of stopping someone when you see that they are making an error, to show them a better way or to just say, stop now or your going to over sand that panel can't be done in the environment that we have here. Very often, what some people may feel are "pro's" hear, is coming after the fact when the person asking how, has done it wrong, maybe it wasn't explained in the terms that the person asking could fully understand. Maybe the person asking how, thought he understood but didn't. When I hear someone who has started a thread say, "I ask these questions only because I will obsess over it unless I know it is Good", and the advice given, I'm sure was given with the best intentions for the OP and have reread every post, not one member in my mind crossed a line and tried to intimidate the OP.

What I'm more happy about is that not one post said, "this is easy, all you have to do is"...those are the posts that do more damage than people telling someone that they have a big job in front of them and give alternative suggestions. Those box sides would be tough, even for a seasoned "pro" and I know many seasoned pro's that either wouldn't touch them or if they did wouldn't get them straight...yet they have a piece of paper that says they are pro's. Every person that offered advice knew how tough those box sides are and reading your post, your the only one that has made it sound not nearly as difficult as it is.

Comments like "Anybody can learn body work" and "Getting sheet metal straight ain't that hard" or "Nothing too difficult to accomplish here". I had a few more but I'm sure that my point is made. You may feel that these quotes have been taken out of context but, how do you know how a person will interpret what you wrote. Everyone of the three quotes is wrong. Not just anybody can do or learn body work, I've met numerous good people that just can't do it, no matter how hard they tried. Getting large 6 foot surfaces of sheet metal straight is difficult, you need patience, you need passion, you need experience and know what you are doing.

My hats off to the professionals that took the time to give the OP their opinions and offer advice so that the job would turn out best for the person concerned. My hats also off to the OP, his comment about obsessing tells me that he does have the passion, I would hate for an individual such as this, who obviously cars about this vehicle go ahead, grab a 2 X 4, prep his truck and not be happy with the results. It may demoralize an individual to the point that they might never want to attempt anything like this again.

Only wishing the best for the OP.

Ray
 
#37 ·
With all due respect Ray you offer comments without solution. I think people forget what these web boards are all about: It's to help one another out, it's about the exchange of information. I learned how to do body work with very little instruction and worked for two body shops and a restoration firm before I turned 25. By the way a 2x4 works very well as that was my main tool for straightening the doors on my 79 Camaro which took best in class it's first outing at an AACA show. The car is straighter than new. Picture attached. I am not a pro, don't own a Jay Leno garage or have a Chip Foose budget but I got the job done.

In my opinion the spirit of a hotrodders forum such as this is to help people out and not discourage them. It's about the friendly exchange of information. How the hell is anybody supposed to get any experience if he is told he can't do it. Anybody can learn to do body work, not everybody has to have an arsenal of high end tools or a fancy garage to do it in either. Not everybody will be a perfectionist at it either. Some have the knack some don't. As far as spending thousands only to be disappointed I don't think a couple quarts of body filler and some sandpaper are gonna ring up that kind of tab before he knows if this is for him or not. We are talking about knocking out some dents and using some body filler, not rocket science here, anyone with a little positive encouragement can do this.

Based on the traditions hot rodding was founded on, you work with what you have, It breaks common sense why somebody would offer comments without solution and be down right discouraging such as tech69.

Let him do his own work if he wants it to look like crap? Really?

Come on guys..............
 

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#23 ·
I don't know what you mean by "are you sure that is the right tool, but I will agree with you that it doesn't take expensive equipment to find high and low spots. My long board is a piece of aluminum machined smooth with wooden handles, it cost me a total of $15.00 and I've had it for almost 20 years.

Your also right about common sense, when it comes to doing body work and painting vehicles, it seems that the more experience I have, the more common sense seems to come easier.

Ray
 
#26 ·
Thanks to everyone for their input. I consider myself very handy and I don't fail at much. I weld, do fine wood work, build engines (including the 650hp 521 for this truck) but this is making me stop and think.

I will be honest, a lot of the comments did make me doubt myself. Gold duster did make me think again that maybe I can get it done. Pulling the dents is easy, right? The picture show a fair representation of the panel, with wet primer on it you can get a good idea of what it looks like. It was close to the other side that I haven't touched yet so there is improvement there.

I understand to much heat is a bad thing, over pulling on the dents will stretch the metal, there is only so much metal there so don't remove to much..... and so on.

What I have decided to do is get as much done on it as I can and then take it to a resto shop and have them finish it. If I can save them 10 hrs work that's money in my pocket.

I have a thick skin so be honest. You don't do anyone a favor by telling them they are doing a good job when in reality they can't color within the lines.

The comment about pros with their nose in the air is a fair one but we all know they're not all like that. The first shop (guy) I spoke to about this truck was a dick in a well known shop in Edmonton. The first question he asked me was "why would I fix up this truck". Don't get me wrong, they do very nice work and turn out some nice cars but I will never deal with him again because of the attitude. If I wanted to fix up an AMC Gremlin he shouldn't ask why.
 
#29 ·
Kevin, as much as people here are trying to help you, sometimes the advice we give you comes from the comments that you made. We have no idea about how qualified you are or aren't. Your thread is titled "New to Body work..". To me that would mean that you do not have a lot of experience, you went on to say that if it wasn't done properly, you'd obsess over it. Not knowing you personally and all that anyone that did give advice had to go on was what they read. We can give you a lot of advice, but without experience and knowing exactly what to look for while your working on your 6 foot box sides chances are it's not going to be as straight as you would like, guide coat or no guide coat. No one here was holding there nose high in the air and being condescending, all they where doing was giving you the facts. They only had your best interest at heart and wanted you to have the results that you where hoping to achieve.

One of the things I detest is when people post and make comments about how easy it is, when that fact is that it can be difficult...even for a professional. Pulling dents, may or may not be easy, it depends on the dent, when you pull a dent your not just moving the metal where the dent is, your moving metal around the dent as well and on a 6 foot box side with a lot of dents, your moving a lot of metal. I did a quarter panel on a Cadillac a number of years ago, it wasn't nearly as bad as your box side. I had repaired tougher quarters than this one, but for some reason, it gave me a lot of grief. That type of thing can happen in this trade and in reading the posts, I don't feel that people where trying to discourage you, they where in my opinion being honest with you and coloring within the lines. By the way, 2 X 4 don't make a good block for large flat areas.

Yes, there are people and shops that have that mightier than thou attitude and I don't have much use for them. On that note, I'd be very interested in knowing which shop in Edmonton gave you attitude. When I was repping paint I repped in Edmonton for almost 10 years and know many of the shops there. You mentioned that you might be looking for a shop that would help you finish, perhaps, if you don't have one in mind, I might be able to help you out. If your interested, send me a PM and we can discuss it further. I do honestly respect your initiative for taking this project on and asking for advice.

When your working at getting stellar results in this trade, getting large areas of metal straight is anything but easy...as far as I'm concerned it's only easy if your satisfied by mediocre results. If it was that easy, the old saying comes into play, then anybody could do it.

So if your interested in my offer, let me know.

Best Regards

Ray
 
#30 ·
I'm sure your head's spinning after all this excellent and well meaning advice. Mine would be. Why don't you spend a few bucks and get a gallon of bondo a long board a rattle can of flat black and try a section . If your happy with the results move over a couple of feet and work on that area. If everything looks like camel crap and your going nuts find that shop to finish the job. If the results are close to what you want keep on trucking!
You might find you like and have the aptitude for bodywork. You also might find out you flat out don't like bondo dust in your ears so turn it over to the pro's. If you do fine carpentry I'll bet you'll do ok.
You'll never until you try.

BB ( whose bodywork mostly looks like camel crap but's to cheap to turn it over to the pro's) :thumbup::thumbup:
 
#31 ·
I think that's great advice, you'll know fairly quickly if this is for you or not. I think the mistake I made (and thank you BB) when it comes to giving advice in this regard is, try working on an area smaller than a box side...If you have a fender, a door...maybe the roof of the cab, anything that has a smaller area than a 6 foot box side. If you can work the metal and get that straight, move on to something bigger. WOW, that is common sense and I for one missed the boat on that one.

I was fixated on the question, not a solution, I learned something today and thank you again BB.

Ray
 
#33 ·
I like his approach of working it and handing it off. That's smart and says a lot about other things he may be doing on this resto. You also never know, maybe it looks good in wet primer and you decide to finish it off. In any case, if the major stuff is worked out this can be no more than a tech getting a 16" and doing a little more sanding and a skim coat. It can cut the work in half. The only time I would disagree with that is if the panel is hammered and you try to get it back in shape. I have thrown fits (all to myself) working other people's stuff but it's usually cause they're goal is to tuck the metal in by all means and mine is to ensure I'm getting the true shape back w/ proper flex. This bed doesn't look like one of those though where it's hammered to that point.
 
#35 ·
This is good topic because we need a similar type of product that does not expand under heat like bondo does. people just keep on using the same product. I'm sure the manufacturer does not mind selling us this crap that create's more work for us to do and is basically a half *** product. Sure, it sand's easier and faster but my point being is who really want's this water absorbing sponge CRAP!
 
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