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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2013, 06:10 PM
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Okay so I went to tune my carb and set my timing, and I threw a vacuum gauge on just for the hell of it and I was only pulling 1' at idle and when I kicked it up to about 2000 rpm it would pull just shy of 20'.... soooo I went ahead and pulled the top end off. I think it's because I used the ****ty cheap mr. gasket paper intake manifold gaskets. And I had oil in the intake runners. SO this may also be why I was having such ****ty performance out of my motor. When I first put it together about a month ago I used the vacuum gauge on it and I was getting 18' at idle. So I'm wondering how I lost vacuum and also wondering if this was the cause for the rich smell and the inability to adjust my mixture screws on the metering block. I've just decided i'm gonna pull it all apart, get my heads decked .030, run a .020 shim style mr. gasket head gasket, and put the edelbrock performance intake manifold gaskets on with the perma seal stripe. I'm gonna take my time putting it together, and once it's all said and done i'll be around 9.5:1 on my CR and I'll get my timing dialed in properly with the MSD advance tuning kit. Any thoughts? Sound like a decent plan for now? At least until about a year from now when I get around to saving up for my bottom end rebuild.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HeavyChevyDeluxe View Post
Okay so I went to tune my carb and set my timing, and I threw a vacuum gauge on just for the hell of it and I was only pulling 1' at idle and when I kicked it up to about 2000 rpm it would pull just shy of 20'.... soooo I went ahead and pulled the top end off. I think it's because I used the ****ty cheap mr. gasket paper intake manifold gaskets. And I had oil in the intake runners. SO this may also be why I was having such ****ty performance out of my motor. When I first put it together about a month ago I used the vacuum gauge on it and I was getting 18' at idle. So I'm wondering how I lost vacuum and also wondering if this was the cause for the rich smell and the inability to adjust my mixture screws on the metering block. I've just decided i'm gonna pull it all apart, get my heads decked .030, run a .020 shim style mr. gasket head gasket, and put the edelbrock performance intake manifold gaskets on with the perma seal stripe. I'm gonna take my time putting it together, and once it's all said and done i'll be around 9.5:1 on my CR and I'll get my timing dialed in properly with the MSD advance tuning kit. Any thoughts? Sound like a decent plan for now? At least until about a year from now when I get around to saving up for my bottom end rebuild.
Your mixture screw problem was just a lack of timing. Nothing more. Fel pro PN# 1094 is 0.015 head gasket. Use this over the Mr Gasket head gasket.
Good luck
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2013, 09:39 PM
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Thanks bygddy. Do you think those crap intake gaskets could of been part of the problem also?
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:47 PM
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Have you had good results with those 1094s?
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:21 PM
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Have you had good results with those 1094s?
Yep, make sure your deck surface is very clean. The heads will have been cut so they will be fine. Some people don't like using them with alum heads but many do, including me without issue. I haven't had a leak or problem yet, and the set I used are still on the motor 20000 hard miles later with no issue.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:24 PM
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Awesome. Thanks for the help.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2013, 10:54 PM
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"wondering if this was the cause for the rich smell"

Put a quality fuel pressure regulator in the line before the carb inlet and adjust the pressure down to 4 1/2 lbs. Not kidding. 4 1/2.

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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2013, 11:00 PM
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lack of adjustability in the mixture screws is from the throttle being open too much. set idle speed lower until the screws have an effect. some people drill the primary throttle blades with a 1/16" drill to let in more air without letting in more fuel. Demon carbs have the idle-eaze deal that does this same function. a large cam like that doesn't idle well. when you reassemble the engine, set the throttle blades to show the proper amount of transfer slot. if you need to crank the idle speed screw so much that you lose adjustability in the mixture screws, you can crack the secondaries a little bit. there's a tiny set screw that can open the secondaries up a little. this can do some to fix your fatness at idle. it's best to do that when you have four-corner idle adjustment. I ran 25* initial timing for a large-by-huge wrong-*** cam for my sbc. it liked it more but still idled like dog ****. advancing initial timing will speed up the engine, then you can slow it down with throttle screw on the carb, it should like that more and more. some people run big weird cam with timing locked out, and no advance, something around 34* all over. either way, I went with a smaller cam and loved it. since you're dropping money on rebuilding something you might not have needed to, going with a smaller schtick don't cost much more.
so, set initial timing around 14* or some ****, set idle speed, then add timing and reduce speed until you get where you want.
I've used the el-cheapo gaskets and with a slight coating of rtv they seal just fine, but only if you dont **** with them too much, else they'll need replaced.
mech. advance curve is set with the spring on the weights below the rotor. there's a little card from MSD that tells you ideal stuff. try two light springs (light silver), or light silver and blue. better curve. I think they did theirs on car weight.

bottom line is that you really need to just get out there and **** with it and see what it's doing. dial-back lights and a vacuum gauge are great. that thing should run ok, but it wont be perfect. kinda mismatched.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2013, 04:50 AM
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Well that could be the reason i'm running rich.. I don't even have a fuel pressure regulator. And as it turns out i have a holley 600 (the guy i got it off of a long time ago told me it was a 650 but he was full of ****).. And someone earlier recommended I use a 750 carb, now if I upgraded to that that wouldn't be too much carb causing it to run rich? I assume i'll be able to dial it in after i have my timing set as advertised (same procedure ben s. Recommended). The list just keeps getting longer haha. Decked heads, thin gaskets, 750 carb, pressure regulator, tuning springs. I can't wait to see how all yhese
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:51 AM
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...work together to get more power out of my way too big cam.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:54 AM
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lack of adjustability in the mixture screws is from the throttle being open too much. set idle speed lower until the screws have an effect.
I already have the idle as low as it will go. In gear it sits about 800, in patk with no load on the motor it's around 1100.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:30 AM
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fuel pressure regulator and gauge

I stacked my regulator and filter and such all on top of each other. you need a regulator for sure. 4 1/2 - 7 1/2 psi, edelbrocks like it lower, Holley's like it higher (usually). unregulated fuel pressure is a No-Go.

the smaller carb vs. larger carb thing is really a nonissue if neither of them are tuned. they'll both run equally ****ty if they're just jammed on the car. you can run a 600, 650 or 750 just fine on the street. I run a 680 vac. sec. carb and I like it. either way, need to tune both to get it all right, and I wouldn't expect it to be a fast process. it took me a while to get it closer to right than wrong. instrumentation is nice to have (dial-back lights, vac gauges, A/F wideband if you've got the money [I love mine]). my MTX wideband really helped me get my truck right, its from Innovate Motorsport, pretty affordable.

the base calibration on carbs out of the box has been pretty close for me in the past, just had to change it a little. my idle vac in park is 15", primary jets are 70, secondaries are 78, PV is 8.5". idle mix is tuned to max vac. method, not A/F. initial timing is around 18*, total around 36-38* with vac advance disconnected and plugged. I have an adjustable vac advance canister. using manifold vac.

look at some timing advance bushings if you jack up your base timing a lot. they will limit the amount of advance so you don't end up with 40*+ adv. mech.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:36 AM
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Sweet. Yeah i'm definitely gonna throw on a better fuel pump and regulator and put an in-line pressure gauge so i can tune the regulator pressure to where i want. I'm looking at getting a holley 750 and keeping the jets it comes with. I've tried adjusting the metering block mixture screws before with my 600, but as i've said before had no noticable change in vacuum. Probably due to my crap mr. Gasket micro fuel pump (35gph) and unregulated fuel pressure along side my 10 initial timing. Definitely gonna look into the MSD springs, and a new pump and getting my pressure regulator. Techinspector recommened 4.5psi for my application, but you recommend closer to 7 with a holley? Is there any reasoning behind that?
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:39 AM
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Also i've heard before that preffered total timing is 32-34.. You don't have any problems running it around 38?
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
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I stacked my regulator and filter and such all on top of each other. you need a regulator for sure. 4 1/2 - 7 1/2 psi, edelbrocks like it lower, Holley's like it higher
Ben.....please.......I've been doing my best to help these fellows understand that carburetors are not like EFI. MORE PRESSURE WILL NOT MAKE MORE POWER. All it will do is to over-power the needle and seat in the bowl and allow the fuel pump to blow raw fuel into the intake manifold, creating a tuning nightmare. The fuel system needs ONLY enough pressure to fill the bowl(s). 4 1/2 lbs will do it and will not affect power in any way. It WILL allow the carburetor to do its job properly.

Fuel pressure when using a carburetor is not part of the tuning process. The carburetor will not "like" or "not like" higher pressures than what are required to fill the bowl(s). Use large diameter fuel lines from the tank forward to allow high VOLUME, not high pressure.

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