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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:56 PM
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A helpful little tip for adjusting doors. Remove the Stryker Bolt so the Door isn't always wanting to latch , that way you can concentrate on the door and rocker alignment , Belt Line and Body Lines. Then when all looks good,replace the Stryker and go cruising.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by david-b View Post
Got out to the garage today, and Brian you were right. Loosened the bolts on the door and used a jack to pick up the door. It moved up! Tightened up and it was sticking out, so repeated but pushing in the top at the mirror and retightened. Fits so much better! The door is titled some still, at the back of the door its about a 1/4in low, so not perfect yet. Was doing by myself so was hard to do. But the loosening the bolts and repositioning worked! Pics attached. Thanks!
Right on! Here is the "Basics of Basics" on panel alignment, it may come in handy.

"Basics of Basics" Panel alignment. (door, hood, ect)

Brian
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 AM
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Heres another tip: dont remove the hinges from the door or the pillar...dont put the jack on the lip ,you'll bend it...and use a 2x4 on the door bottom to put the jack under...Before you start jack up the door a little higher Theres no need to remove the the hinge...most pins have two little ears that need to be ground off so they can be pulled out but most times you can cut them in half with a die grinder and be pulled out much easier and faster,once the pin is out lower the door to gain more access to the bushings....rebuild the hinges one at a time, the top hinge first ,then the bottom...all while the door is on the car...It's not uncommon for a door not to fit properly when your done because the door has been bouncing up and down which bends the door slightly where the hinges mount.(it dont take much to throw the door off a bunch at the other end where the striker is) first you remove the striker then jack up the door to bend it back where it was ,do this a little at a time you dont want to over bend it, if you do you can push it back down using your body weight ....doing it this way you shouldnt ever have to loosen any bolts...
keep this in mind the bolts on the door side only make the door go in and out...its possible,by adding shims to the bottom make it go up and adding shims to the top will make it go down...which is fine for an amiture but pros wont add shims they'll get the up and down adjustment at the pillar where you can raise the whole door up or down or anywhere in between...to get to the pillar bolts you'll need a special (obstruction) wrench or remove the fender....those of us that do a lot of these dont touch the bolts at all ...try it this way on the other side and you should be done in 30 minutes to an hour...
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Heres another tip: dont remove the hinges from the door or the pillar...dont put the jack on the lip ,you'll bend it...and use a 2x4 on the door bottom to put the jack under...Before you start jack up the door a little higher Theres no need to remove the the hinge...most pins have two little ears that need to be ground off so they can be pulled out but most times you can cut them in half with a die grinder and be pulled out much easier and faster,once the pin is out lower the door to gain more access to the bushings....rebuild the hinges one at a time, the top hinge first ,then the bottom...all while the door is on the car...It's not uncommon for a door not to fit properly when your done because the door has been bouncing up and down which bends the door slightly where the hinges mount.(it dont take much to throw the door off a bunch at the other end where the striker is) first you remove the striker then jack up the door to bend it back where it was ,do this a little at a time you dont want to over bend it, if you do you can push it back down using your body weight ....doing it this way you shouldnt ever have to loosen any bolts...
keep this in mind the bolts on the door side only make the door go in and out...its possible,by adding shims to the bottom make it go up and adding shims to the top will make it go down...which is fine for an amiture but pros wont add shims they'll get the up and down adjustment at the pillar where you can raise the whole door up or down or anywhere in between...to get to the pillar bolts you'll need a special (obstruction) wrench or remove the fender....those of us that do a lot of these dont touch the bolts at all ...try it this way on the other side and you should be done in 30 minutes to an hour...
I just want to make clear that it also goes up and down here, straight up or straight down and in and out as DBM said. It also goes up and down at the hinge to cowl but it will do that as well at door the to hinge.

And I am with you Mike (DBM) there is NO need to put a jack under a door. I don't think I have done that more than a few times and only in some bizarre situation. Under normal alignments you don't need to do that and shouldn't as Mike pointed out.

Brian
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:18 AM
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The hinges were fully removed to be cleaned up. Ideally would have loved to get the powdercoated, but didn't happen. Also, I don't know how I'd be able to install the spring on the top hinge without it being in a vice. Take a good deal of force to compress it. I will try to do the other side without removing the door. I can't imagine having enough space to do it though. Will give it a try though on the other door.

I had read about the hinges bending and makes sense. Also seen bending tools to help bend it back into shape. I'll try adjusting the door again and then try the bending if no change.

Lots of good information from everyone, thanks!
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by david-b View Post
The hinges were fully removed to be cleaned up. Ideally would have loved to get the powdercoated, but didn't happen. Also, I don't know how I'd be able to install the spring on the top hinge without it being in a vice. Take a good deal of force to compress it. I will try to do the other side without removing the door. I can't imagine having enough space to do it though. Will give it a try though on the other door.

I had read about the hinges bending and makes sense. Also seen bending tools to help bend it back into shape. I'll try adjusting the door again and then try the bending if no change.

Lots of good information from everyone, thanks!
I wish I could hand you my spring tool, it's one of these.



But for years I have used a pair of Duckbill Vice grips like these.



Just put the spring in it along the edge and compress it, put it into place and release the Vicegrip.

Brian
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:36 AM
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The tool for bending the hinges is "ok" but really you want to move things where they need to be. Let's face it, seldom does the hinge get bent when you are using one of these tools, the weakest point is going to bend, and that isn't the hinge its self it's going to be the mounting of the hinge on the door or the cowl or B pillar or where ever the hinge is mounted. So bending to make the door fit may be long lasting, but it also may be short lived being it was bent for a reason, it is weakened and it will go back same place after a while. So it's sort of a last resort. It's also a great tool for the alignment in that you can loosen the hinge bolts only a little and use this tool with it's leverage to move the door a little.

Brian
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:36 AM
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Usually the spring is on the bottom hinge I dont think I've ever seen one on the top hinge.
you can get that spring tool at Harbor frieght now for about 5.00

something I forgot to add in my last post is loosening the pillar bolts will not only adjust the up and down position but the back and forth by quite a bit Those older monties usually have pretty wide door to 1/4 gaps and you can close them up a lot but you'll have to slide the fener back some also...
If your working with the hinge still in place and dont have enogh room simply lower the jack ,you can lower the jack quite a bit and make lots of room when it comes time to do the bushings
on the older cars you can get a little up and down from the door side but not much....
You can still remove the complete hinge without removing the door just do one at a time,I do it all the time when the hinge is so worn out it needs welding and painting...
just lower the jack a little until you have enough room to slip it out...I used to use a floor jack but using a sissor jack like the ones that come in the trunk of some cars works much better and is way easier to move around to get it into position
...
If your removing the hinge or just rebuldingthem with the door on theres a good chance of chipping the paint so before you start put some masking tape on the fender edge and door edge 3-4 layers will o the trick...if you remove the door tape all the edges on the door and the jambs...
one last thing ...if your removing the hinge,use some tape to outline where the hinge is before removing it this will get you a good starting point when you put it back on...you can also use a marker on the tape to get it even closer ....
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:01 AM
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Thanks for the responses!

Made it out to the garage last night to do some motor work but gave the door a whirl again. I tried the bolts on the door side to try to angle the door back up some with no luck. Thing would not move at all in the direction. It's still about a 1/4" low at the back. The front is matched up nearly perfectly still. Since it is such a little amount I was going to try to do the bend, but as soon as I started, I stopped and decided that I don't like that idea at all. As said above, should be able to get there using the bolts and no bending, because who knows what you're actually bending. Want to do this right!

So I think I'm going to pull the fender probably this weekend and try the cowl bolts for that final adjustment.

Then I'll try the other door with everything still on. Really feel I'm going to struggle on that but lots of good tips from everyone.

Hinges are on the top on this Monte. Realizing while working on this, the specific car doesn't follow a lot of the "standards" that other cars follow.

Thanks!
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david-b View Post
Thanks for the responses!

Made it out to the garage last night to do some motor work but gave the door a whirl again. I tried the bolts on the door side to try to angle the door back up some with no luck. Thing would not move at all in the direction. It's still about a 1/4" low at the back. The front is matched up nearly perfectly still. Since it is such a little amount I was going to try to do the bend, but as soon as I started, I stopped and decided that I don't like that idea at all. As said above, should be able to get there using the bolts and no bending, because who knows what you're actually bending. Want to do this right!

So I think I'm going to pull the fender probably this weekend and try the cowl bolts for that final adjustment.

Then I'll try the other door with everything still on. Really feel I'm going to struggle on that but lots of good tips from everyone.

Hinges are on the top on this Monte. Realizing while working on this, the specific car doesn't follow a lot of the "standards" that other cars follow.

Thanks!
If the door is low at the back, look at the gap from quarter to door, if the gap is tighter at the top than you want it, then move the upper door hinge forward on the cowl to raise the back and widen that upper gap. If the gap is ok at the top and too wide at the bottom then move the lower hinge back on the cowl to raise back of the door and narrow the gap at the bottom to the quarter.

You have to REALLY be careful if you are doing all this with the striker installed. The striker could be pulling the door down, even though it's aligned properly. The trick to this is to get down at the same height as the top of the door, on your knees is good, right at the back of the door so you are looking straight at the rear of the door at the quarter. Bring the door to where the latch touches the striker but don't latch it. Carefully push the door so the latch starts to latch on the striker while you are staring at that top edge of the door to quarter, slowly push the door in and see if the door drops or raises as the latch catches the striker. A TINY bit high or low on the striker will make a heck of a difference as it pulls the door up or down.

If you are "shutting" the door normally, or even carefully but without EXAMINING that door at the quarter as I just described the door could very well be aligned perfect and it is simply being pulled down or up by the striker. It is very subtle and the rocking motion of the latch camouflages it. Unless you are VERY diligent about staring right at that door and quarter edge you may be missing that the door is being pushed down or up by the striker.

You want to eliminate that COMPLETELY the door should swing shut without it moving up or down at all.

Brian
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:54 AM
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I don't have the right size hex (forget the proper name) to get the striker off. Anyone know the size offhand? I will have to pick one up and check that out.

The door will close on its own with the striker in place. If I pick up the door as it closes, its smoother, which makes me think the striker isn't causing the problem, but will still check out and remove.

The gap is tighter at the bottom than the top in the front. The top looks a little big compared to the other side. Feels that if the whole door is tilted towards the front of the car, it'll all match up good.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:57 AM
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Yep, it sounds like you need to move the lower hinge back a bit on the cowl and you will be good to go. You don't NEED to remove the striker, move the door up in the back at the lower hinge and see how it works for you.


Brian
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2013, 10:10 AM
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if the door needs to be lifted when closing for a smooth close then the striker needs to be adjusted. There has already been enough movement to justify it, especially now. You could also go ahead and make your adjustment and slowly close it over and over again looking closely at the top of the door to quarter to see if it's moving on you, binding, or needing to be shimmed, etc-etc.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:25 AM
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I don't have the right size hex (forget the proper name) to get the striker off. Anyone know the size offhand? I will have to pick one up and check that out.

The door will close on its own with the striker in place. If I pick up the door as it closes, its smoother, which makes me think the striker isn't causing the problem, but will still check out and remove.

The gap is tighter at the bottom than the top in the front. The top looks a little big compared to the other side. Feels that if the whole door is tilted towards the front of the car, it'll all match up good.
I can't make it clear enough, you adjust the door THEN the striker to the door. If the door is fitting as it should closed then you would of course adjust the door to where the striker is, it is after all fitting when the door is latched. So you would want to be sure to get down at eye level and see if the door is being pushed up or down, then adjust the door at the cowl to make it hit the striker perfect.

So adjusting the door to fit the striker is perfectly normal, and very common. The door sagged, you correct the sagging door and the it fits perfect. This is very common. Not every door is the same of course. But making the door fit, to the striker, beautiful, or move the striker to make it fit the door. But the fit of the DOOR is what is most important. Moving the striker to then fit the door to complete the alignment if needed.

Brian
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:40 PM
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i like to remove the striker so i can better gauge the changes. you know the door is where it needs to be with no striker and from that point it's very easy to tell if the door shifts up or down/in or out by simply looking at the top of the door as you slowly close it with the striker in. if you bring the door to the striker you are more likely to settle as opposed to making sure it's gonna be latching correctly. either way, the problem will get solved.
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