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Old 05-23-2007, 11:24 AM
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New Dream Shop - Need help finishing it out

Hey guys, just bought a new house with a 23x25 shop. I have big plans for this place. I know everyone has an opinion on how to finish out the interior of a workshop, including me. I know what I want to do, just looking for a little advice on how to accomplish it. I think I'll use this thread to keep my thoughts and progress organized.

Here's the current plan -

Add more 110 outlets every 2 feet. Two circuits, so every other outlet is on a different circuit.

Add more outlets in ceiling for additional T8 lights and hanging retractable power cords

Air Compressor bolted to covered concrete pad behind shop, air lines piped through brick wall, several air hose connections

Cut a hole through brick wall to mount 15,000 btu air conditioner. (I only have 1 small window)

R-13 Owens Corning insulation for exterior walls, R-30 and air vents for 2x10 rafters

Drywall - 5/8", fire rated for 10' walls and attic space.
4x10 sheets, hung vertically on walls
4x8 sheets on ceiling and attic rafters

High gloss paint, light grey from floor to 4', bright red stripe with yellow pinstriping, then bright white from 5' to 10', plus ceiling

High gloss light grey epoxy floor paint

Nice workbench with lots of storage cabinets along back wall.

Computer desk, fridge, couch, tv, storage space upstairs


So that's the plan. Here's the questions for you guys -
1. Which floor paint? I've seen these brands at the home improvement stores -
Quikrete 2 part water based epoxy, 250 sq ft, $54
Rustoleum 2 part water based eqpoxy 250 sq ft, $62
Seal krete urethane acrylic water based, $25
Behr 1 part acrylic epoxy, $26
H&C Shield-Crete 2 part epoxy, $95
U-Coatit kit (from website estimator) $460

2. Where to get good a good workbench and overhead cabinets? I want gloss white, smooth surfaces for easy cleanup, with lots of drawers and wide doors, but can't spend a fortune on these

3. How hard would it be to add a window through the brick? The other side (with no window) faces the yard where my little girl will play.

4. Hard hard would it be to add a 6' wide dormer with window in the attic space? I'd like to have natural light and a view of the yard from my computer desk upstairs.

5. How could I run a conduit from the house to the shop, under the sidewalk (see picture) for running cable tv & network cables? Total distance would be about 25' underground


I'll post more pictures tomorrow.
-Shane
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:33 AM
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I work in a diesel pump shop and we have a painted floor. we use Sherwin williams high clad solid epoxy paint. This floor is used everyday with diesel fuel grease and motor oil on it. It is mopped with solvet and soap every day. We have a man paid that does the mopping every night. With all of this the floor holds up very well for several years. It comes in a lot of different colors also. We use a light gray to help make the shop brighter.
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:54 PM
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Sounds like a nice project.
Visit this site for any and all garage questions. A great board, nice bunch of garagaholics.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/

I had my floors professionally done instead of DIY, they were able to do both garages in 2 days. Would have taken me 3+ weeks. Heard good and bad on DIY floors.
As far as running conduit I've seen water drills that seem to work fine for small holes in soft soil. Never used one myself but they look up to the task. It's just a tip that screws on conduit and hooks to your garden hose.
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:46 PM
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It sounds like you have some great ideas for the shop - I'd suggest to get yourself on a budget first, then prioritize based on how you can use the shop to begin with...Because unless you have an unlimited budget ~ unfortunately ~ I think you're going to find that every single thing you are planning to do is going to cost WAY more than you think. The price of copper for piping, wiring etc. has gone through the roof - it's insane Same goes for all other materials

How much of this work can you do to save money on labor - that will be a huge cost benefit the more you can do yourself - downside...takes a lot longer to get things done.

The epoxy floor systems are great - unless you're going to be doing a lot of metal fabrication ie cutting, welding and grinding.

The epoxy will hold for the most part - but will scar from welding slag, hot sparks.etc.

Expensive is the word no matter which system you go with. I did a 550 sq ft in my small garage or "game/workout room" and it was 600.00+ in materials. My 22x40 shop would have been well over 1000.00 just for floor paint

Another area of concern with epoxy floor systems is rolling anything with metal wheels - ie creepers, engine hoists, engine stands etc - this stuff is good but won't hold up to that over time.

Your shop is relatively the same size as mine and I only have 1 50' 3/8" air hose reel mounted in the center of the wall - but it will reach every corner of my shop so no need to run expensive copper lines and multiple air outlets - I can't operate more than 1 air tool at a time anyway

My compressor is mounted inside - for now - but don't forget a water trap system or adding a refrigerated air line cooler (300.00 HF) - copper is not cheap - this setup was over 100.00 in copper...and over 400.00 in material (8gauge wire, sub-panel, conduit, etc.) just to wire the compressor up.

Is your garage wired with a sub-panel? If not you really want to put one in so you have a separate "Breaker" from the main house supply.



Definitely go with the high output 110w fluorescent lights - a world of difference and they cost about the same to run as the 60w style.

Hope this helps give you some things to think about - good luck with the plans!
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:25 AM
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If you make the top of the work bench out of regular lumber, instead of something smooth, it makes it easier to work with things on it, they aren't slipping around on you.

If you put 7/16 osb on the walls and ceiling. you won't have to worry about poking a hole in it.

I would paint the walls all white, no dark areas.

I wouldn't paint the floor, leave it like it is, less slippage.

One last thing, before you run any airlines, I would spend some time studying how to do it, if you put them in right from the start, it will pay off in longer tool life and cleaner dryer air.

I know you want a really nice shop, and what I have suggested won't look as nice as what your plans are, anyway, just trying to help out.

This has a lot of good information, if you're interested

http://www.1969supersport.com/airsand.html

Rob

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Old 05-24-2007, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusttorod
Add more 110 outlets every 2 feet. Two circuits, so every other outlet is on a different circuit.
Every two feet seems like overkill. I have them every 6-8 feet and always have power handy. I usually end up using an extension cord anyway. You might consider adding a 50 amp 110 circuit if you have a MIG welder or plasma cutter that runs on 110. They usually need more than 20 amps.

Chris
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSteel34
Every two feet seems like overkill. I have them every 6-8 feet and always have power handy. I usually end up using an extension cord anyway. You might consider adding a 50 amp 110 circuit if you have a MIG welder or plasma cutter that runs on 110. They usually need more than 20 amps.

Chris
I agree with Chris...an outlet every two feet is overkill. 6-8 feet is plenty. If you can run 220 to the garage it will be worth it. The compressor can run off it and if you do some home powder coating you can buy a used electric oven and plug it in there also.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:46 AM
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outlets every 4 feet would be plenty, even 6 ft would work. I would have at least one wall all work bench, or as much as possible, lights on two switches , cause you don't always need to turn on all the lites, plus most flouresants have pull chains so you can shut off a corner or a much place that's not being used. 2 air line outlets is plenty for a small shop. Just 1 nearest the compressor would work. A 220 outlet at each end for the Lincoln welder. Separate service entrance from the house and at least 100 amp service. At lastley, most important..... I'd add another 20 feet to it !
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:59 AM
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Allsteel34 is right, every 2 feet is a waste and not necessary. make it every 6-8 and all capable of handling a mig. I don't know where Rambo-the-dog buy's his paint but I got mine for under $50 a gallon from Home Hardware. A couple gallons should do you and depending on the concrete It makes a big difference. The cement in my shop is old and there was no concrete gloss put on it from new. Paint made all the diff in how the creeper rolls. Try rolling around on your creeper now and see how easy it is. Also put lots of shelving in. You can never have to much shelving or cupboards.
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Old 05-24-2007, 01:15 PM
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Wow, lots of great suggestions, that's why I love this place! The Garage Journal is a cool site!

I'm off work all next week to work on the shop. I got the skills to avoid paying the labor bills. The plan is electrical upgrades, insulation, sheetrock, and paint. The other stuff like windows, dormers, and conduit will come later.

I ordered the sheetrock yesterday, $525 for the main shop & ceiling. Once I see how bad it sucks to put it up, I'll decide if I want to do the upstairs or hire someone. I see no problem with sticking to my $2,500 budget for this project.

I started meauring for outlets last night, and you're right, every 2 feet is too much. Based on the layout of my shop, and the fact that I'm a bit obsessive compulsive about things lining up straight and being evenly spaced, I plan to add outlets on every other 2x4 stud, which will be 32". Yeah, that's closer to 2' than to 4' as suggested, but everyone says to add more than you think you'll need, plus I don't want to rip out the sheetrock later to add a $2 outlet.

Also adding 4 more T8 lights in the ceiling to light 'er up like a ballfield.

I'm also adding exterior outlets on 3 outside walls, plus adding one motion flood light to light up the swingset. Can I put the 220 outlet by the compressor under the covered area, or does that power cord need to be routed inside?

Forgot the pictures last night, I'll try again tonight.
Thanks guys!
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Old 05-24-2007, 01:36 PM
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Rambo,
I've never seen a compressor setup like that. What's all the copper piping for?
I'll take your advice and just mount the hose reel on the wall close to the compressor, that's all I have in my old shop, and it's been fine.
-Shane
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:13 PM
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(2) GOOD electric reels and a hose reel , all near the center will be alot more than you will ever need. TRUST ME.

I was stupid. I put in air taps and outlets every 8' in my polebarn. Most are covered, and ALL need extension cords to use. That means hoses /cords everywhere or screwing around with them all day. I got sick of that nonsense and went to the reels. Never looked back. I even pulled most of the air taps and plugged them off so I could install cabinets. The reels wind up the cords/hoses when your done. Neat & clean, out of the way.

Drywall sucks in a garage. Literally sucks up all oil or grease within a 4 mile perimeter, regardless of what paint you have. 7/16 OSB that is polyeurethaned first, then painted (So it doesn't bleed through). Easier to clean. Easier to hang cabinets/etc. over. No finishing.
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:23 PM
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As far as cutting a hole in the brick that's not hard at all. Do this before you sheet rock. Here is how I would do it. Figure out what size your AC is going to be. Possibly thing about checking on a combination unit, heat and cool. I would go and measure several new ones so if in the future the one you have framed goes out OR isn't big enough to cool or heat it the way you want too, and you can't get one the same size or the unit is bigger. Find the biggest one and make your rough frame size to that. Say you find one that is 30" wide by 30" tall. Make the rough opening 2" bigger all the way around, 32" X 32". I would start on the outside first. Make it so it's the same height as the top of your door. Look at the personnel entrance door and follow the brick line/mortar line all the way around to where you want the location of the unit. Get a level and mark across on the bricks where you want the unit located. If you can move the line down so that the line you draw will be in the mortar (easier cutting). Once you get that line make sure you have it wide enough to get you width needed for the unit PLUS 2"! I know you are thinking "Why 2" bigger?" This is so when you get the rough frame in you can get some 1 X 10 and wrap around the inside part and protrude even with the face of the brick and seal any water or whatever from betting into the building or behind the brick. Then you trim around that like framing in a picture frame. Caulk the snot out of it and you've got a sealed unit!

Now back to the framing part. You've got your line marked across the top on the mortar joint, measure down the 32" on the left or right side and use a framing square to get the line at a 90 degree angle from the top line. Draw your bottom line across and get the old masonry blade out and go to cutting! Goggles and dust mask please!

After the square hole is cut, remove the bricks and stick something through the exterior sheathing so that you have a mark as to where the exterior sheathing will have to be cut. It don't matter if this cut is crooked or a little bigger than your hole in the brick, it won't hurt a thing.

After you have the sheathing cut out you can add your trimmer/door buck/king stud or whatever you want to call it on both sides so that when you put the header across and the bottom seal and the window bucks will be exactly the same opening as the opening in your brick. You will have to cut probably one or two studs in order to get them out of your way for the opening. It may be just as easy to knock them completely out, won't hurt a thing temporarily! Make sure you header is the same height as your top line of your brick that you cut, the sides are in line and the bottom is in line. After all is said and done trim out the opening as described above and you are through. Make sure your AC tilts a little toward the back so the condensate won't run into the garage! There ya go! Your through!!!
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:43 PM
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Thanks for the great info Mule! This part will be fairly easy. When the previous owner had the shop built, they started framing out the window on the back wall, but he made them move the window to a side wall. It's all framed out with the header and everything, and looks to be a perfect fit for my a/c unit. Of course I'll have to meaure to make sure.

What kind of saw do I use to cut the brick? Skil-saw with masonry blade?
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Old 05-24-2007, 02:47 PM
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Yep! It will probably take a couple of them! Maybe 3.

Since you already have the frame inside then you probably want to drill a hole from the inside out at all 4 corners to make sure you have the corners of your opening lined up with your framed opening. Chalk or mark a line and tear it up buddy!
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