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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 04:36 AM
adtkart@aol.com
 
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I have sen the Mustang and also the Camaro bodies. They are not perfect, and I don't think anyone would expect them to be. They are not JUNK by any normal person's standards. They are not hand made to perfection, they are stamped panels that are assembled. The ones at the shows have been transported from show to show. They may, or may not be what you would get if you bought one. Often on stuff that is hand made and assembled, the show pieces may be better than what is shipped to you. On these, they are put thru the wringer going to shows all over also. You would have to expect to do work on them, but I don't believe to the extent as described.

If people actually looked at the original cars when they were produced, they were far from perfect!

Aaron

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Old 05-02-2007, 05:49 AM
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Prepare yourself for some major struggles during assembly, heck the doors used on these cars will rarely fit a factory body without some major mods.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Prepare yourself for some major struggles during assembly, heck the doors used on these cars will rarely fit a factory body without some major mods.
After the "major struggles" I had with my Gibbon body I would actually relish fitting steel doors and panels .

Vince
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 08:08 AM
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There was no one as surprised as me when I first ran my hand (If you haven't ran your hand over them, you REALLY need to) over the steel old Ford Repro Roadster bodies at the Goodguys. I should have known, I have installed MANY repro and aftermarket parts over the years. Most have been JUNK, some a big surprise as they fit great. The aftermarket late model sheet metal parts have gotten pretty good. Heck, the aftermarket fenders, hood and rad support available for a 1990ish Chevy pickup fit BETTER than the OEM in my opinion.

When the steel roadster bodies came out I just thought that they followed suite with the late aftermarket parts that I had grown accustomed to, pretty darn nice. Compared to old beat up sheet metal, it would be pretty darn nice.

But after having a few Mustangs and Camaros with the repro fenders and rad support and such to hang I had to re-think it. These were not just "hard to fit" or "More time involved" they were JUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNKKKKKK and they were made by one of the very companies who offer a complete body! They not only fit bad, some spooning, hogging out holes, drift punch guiding and they did "fit" half way decent. I am not even talking about "fit" I am talking about over all quality. The body lines are all wavy, the "flat" areas aren't flat at all with "island" looking patterns all over looking like they had chocolate chip cookies laying all over them, they were JUNK. The rad supports were half the metal thickness, they had fixed nuts welded on the wrong side, holes in the wrong place, they were JUNK.

Now, mind you, they were "better than nothing". Or as my friend says they should put in the catalog if they wanted to be honest "Similar to original, can be used if nothing else is available"

So, I had the hankeren to check out the bodies at a Goodguys event. I had a weekend pass and the night after the first day it hit me, these bodies were there and I need to REALLY check them out. I went there the next morning with the sole purpose to REALLY look at them so I could suggest a good one to people on the forums I visit. Well, I didn't find a single one that I would tell someone to buy, they are just way too rough.

Ask "Irelands child" what he thinks about his!

They are not beat up in transit from show to show for goodness sakes. If anything these ones they are showing are the cream of the crop! One in particular really grabbed me because I felt it (a 34 Ford Roadster) and it was soooooo bad that one panel my 10 year old son pointed out to be BEFORE I even felt it. The panel above the deck lid, it was soooo bad that it had a 1/4" or so low spot that would have required shinking to get into shape. But the kicker was right across the walk way in the building from that body was a fiberglass vendor with his 32 Ford Roadster on display. It was VERY shiny gel coat looking like a SS urethane BLACK paint job. It was SUPER nice. This damn body was as close to perfect as you would ever expect a FINISHED car to be out on the grounds. Every panel fit near flawlessly and they were FLAT, the body lines were CRISP. The metal ones across the walk had body lines that tight in the edge of the line it literally was lumpy, like you folded a piece of thick cardboard, VERY rough.

Soooo, the shades of times past came flooding back to me. When my buddy wrecked his Model A back around 1995 and I bought a repro steel fender for it. It was soooooooo rough I had him return it and get me a beat up original to repair. Or the time I hung a 65 Mustang repro fender and it fit so bad, I bought an original off the back of the steel truck that comes around picking up steel to bring to the steel mill! NO kidding, I literally bought for 20 bucks off the back of the garbage truck a 65 Mustang fender and used it instead of the JUNK repro one! I then put a repro hood on it and it was the only one available, so I used it. It SUCKED, but I used it. Years later I repainted this car and had found a used OEM hood with dents and swapped out the repro to the guy for the original so the darn thing would look right. The repros body lines for instance faded off about two inches from the rear of the hood instead of running all the way back. PLUS it was flimsy as hell.

On the Camaro and Mustang and 57 Chevy bodies I FELT at NACE, same thing. The lines are not crisp, they would require HOURS AND HOURS of detail work to get them decent. The 57 right down the quarter on the top where the upper piece and side are spot welded together (right under the chrome moulding) it looked like a large rope or chain kinda look, lumpy from one end to the other. And not from the spot welds, we are talking POOR stamping. That 57 body would take a few hundred hours to make it anywhere near what people call "show quality".

Come on now guys, we have all installed a repro floor pan or patch panel, how many of you can say that they were the right shape and went right on? How about a weld on patch panel where you have to reshape the edge where it folds around, it has way too sharp or soft of a fold, you have to "blend" the incorrect fold to the old body. The floors need all kinds of pushing and rebending to get them close. Well, the WHOLE body is going to be like that wouldn't you think?

If you have not REALLY walked up and felt them and eye balled it like you were giving an estimate for a guy who wanted a show car when done, you really don't have an idea of how rough they are.

Brian
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 06:31 PM
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If someone was looking for a "new, perfect" body to build that requires little or no work, then they will not find that. If they are looking for a good solid body to build a project car, that they don't have to worry about hidden corrosion, they are a good choice.

When I figure for a project at home, I figure a minimum of 2-3 days for every external panel on the vehicle. That is just to get them straight! That is also if none are being replaced, or obvious extensive damage. If I am replacing a panel, I figure more time for that. That also does not include stripping them.

If a car doesn't need a couple hundred hours of blocking, it isn't worth doing anyway.

Aaron
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adtkart
If someone was looking for a "new, perfect" body to build that requires little or no work, then they will not find that.
Aaron
Exactly, I worked my buns off on a 69 Camaro about 15 years ago that required far more work than I had anticipated. The body I looked at in Louisville was primo compared to that Camaro I did 15 years ago.

Your point about not having to worry about hidden rust and corrosion on a nearly 40 year old body is a very valid one. In addition that OEM body will have countless door dings and parking lot blemishes to get rid of also. I don't think an original body that is almost 40 years old is going to be perfectly straight.

Vince
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2007, 07:56 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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You're very right Vince, a 30, 40 or 50 year old body is not going to be perfect. I am not saying anything of the sort. All I am saying these bodies are VERY rough. If you go into the deal accepting that, cool. But don't think they are "getting you out of" any work, that is a fantasy.

Personally, I like a car with a "history". The way I see it, these bodies are SO rough, you could get a similar "real" one with a history and build it.

Brian
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 04:30 AM
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I really do not disagree too much with you Brian, but the skrocketing costs of orginal first generation Camaros is out of control. I have looked at several of them over the last couple of months that needed new quarters, floor pans, trunk pans, and one that possible even needed a top. History is worth saving and restoring and if I had an original SS or Z28 that is what I would do. You then get into the argument of just how far do you go before you replace so much of the original that you have very little of it left. I think the people who will buy one of these cars (like me) would not be looking to make make an OEM like original. I would like one for a "pro street" look.

Vince
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 11:57 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I understand the intrest in them. But after seeing them and then thinking about work PLUS collecting all the parts needed, I just see a looser project. I have bought a "shell" Vette where I had to collect every single thing that bolts to it, it is a BIG job, and the money added up. Now the "quest" was kind of a gas, but it was a LOT more than I though it would be.

There are plenty of nice shells and projects still around, it just takes time to find them.

Brian
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 12:41 PM
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Wait for it, i think this will drive the price of an original up once a few thousand of these hit the roads. I for one am very interested in one as I have restored junk and would love to start with an assembled rust free body. I am pretty sure you wil be into the same price range whichever way you go but you are so much further ahead with these bodies. The only thing I don't like is that my camaro will be built in taiwan. that is where the camaro shells are being assembled!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:27 PM
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Brian has touched on the waves he felt when feeling up these virgin bodies but I'm sure there's alot more problems than that, imagine trying to assemble the interior and have nothing fit right-I've seen and heard enough about nothing fitting on the doors to worry the rest of the body would be the same. The fenders and hood are also problem childs-mounts in wrong location, dimensionally incorrect, the hoods are always a mess at the rear corners and some aren't wide enough. How about the grille assembly-the factory setup can be a challenge to get near perfect-I can't imagine the struggle with these tiawan parts. You'd basically have to completely assemble the car then tear it down for the body and paint to do it right. I haven't found a repro sheetmetal part for this body design that wasn't a challenge.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:37 PM
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Bob, Since you put it that way I am thinking that after my experience with repop Mustang sheetmetal (not much experience compared to you guys ,but) I can not imagine doing a complete body that is as bad as the parts I bought, fenders, deck lid and the doors (you simply would not believe how bad those doors were!) and the Deck lid , the dang thing was not even square! The door panels, simple as they are on a 65 Mustang would not fit the new door shells and had to be modified to fit so I sold the junky things and found some used ones. I was interested in the Mustang body but after this thread I am not so excited now and I definitely will take a wait and see attitude.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:38 PM
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I have not done research, and don't remember who it was at Indy that had the Mustang body, or who is producing them. The guy at the show said that they had just within the last few days, received approval (Licensing)from Ford to sell them. I do know that I have bought reproduction Mustang parts that fit, and some that didn't fit worth a damn. Kind of like normal Aftermarket parts. It may depend on who the manufacturer is, as far as how the stuff fits.

Aaron
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:48 PM
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That is my point exactly! Come on now guys, you know the old line where if you start the houses foundation out 1/8 inch but the time you travel fifty feet you will be out 1/2" and the WHOLE house will he off.

Can you imagine how screwed up these bodies are with forty or fifty repro parts that are ALL wrong (as 99% of repro parts are) all welded together??

NOTHING, not one single thing will bolt on, NOTHING. Every friggin thing, you try to bolt in the window reg, the holes are off, bolt on the seats the bolts are off, bolt in the dash, the holes are off, the shape is wrong and the hole isn't flat, the doors don't fit to the body and not a single part will bolt to the door without mods. How about the sub frame, it doesn't bolt up nice either. Then the repro front fenders will REALLY be a challenge.

I have put a quarter on that was almost a half inch too long! It had hardly any shape to it, looking so flat that it was almost "concave". The lines didn't line up, it was JUNK. What makes one think that these repro bodies are any better? It may be, but what are the odds? How about those fenders we hung on a 69 Camaro (same brand as the bodies) at work where we had to bend them all to hell to get them to bolt on. The rad support with the nuts to bolt the rad on the wrong side. The inner fenders, HOLY CRAP, it was like we were trying to bolt them on a 75 Chevy pickup they were so off.

How about the 67 Mustang rad support and fenders we hung, the rad support was HALF the metal thickness, you could bend it with your bare hands. The fenders were HORRIBLE, they were so lumpy it was like a friggin bag full of potatos! Again, made by the same company who makes the Camaro bodies!

I am sorry, there are WAY too many good cars still around for a decent price.

Brian
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:31 AM
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To say these are "JUNK", and that the parts will not fit, when no one here has tried to fit them together is just plain WRONG. I have gotten NEW OEM parts that don't fit. GM has had problems with the fenders fitting on their trucks for some time, as they are not shaped right in the rear at the windshield post/door/hood. There were 2 Liftgates that I had to install on Ford minivans that they had the holes in the wrong place for the power latch mechanism. There are many other instances that I have had OEM parts that were not made right, and they didn't fit. A couple of months ago, I had a New OEM inner trim panel from GM that they had the hole in the wrong place for the seatbelt. They simply said that you have to plug that hole and cut another one.

As for the radiator support on the Mustang, I checked that out. The guy even mentioned that they had made it stronger than the original, as they were weak to begin with.

If you take it for granted that nothing will fit, it probably won't. If you think it is JUNK, then don't buy one, but until you do, don't just say it's JUNK.

Aaron
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