Hot Rod Forum banner

new muscle cars

10K views 76 replies 21 participants last post by  Crazy Mopar Guy 
#1 ·
I went to the HOTROD POWER TOUR well the start of it any way in Newton Iowa, the event was awesome thank you Hotrod...
But i was really disapointed in the New era muscle cars theY look great, sound alright but apparently are SLOOOWWW.
There was this BIG BROWN TURD car out there beating them, I dont know what the turd was but you've all seen them, the really big, ugly, you would think slow turd of a car, beating NEW SUPPOSED TO BE FAST Camaros and Mustangs and Chargers. It must have been embarrasing them because they started only racing other New Muscle and Ocasionaly a new versus old the new one always lost.

COME ON GUYS , GM, FORD, DODGE WHATS UP WITH THESE WEAK CARS?
 
#27 ·
I like 'em both. I know my commute car - a newish 5.7 hemi Charger is on paper just as fast as my old 396 '66 Chevelle. -But there's no doubt the Chevelle was more fun to drive. The Charger is a much better car and a pleasure to commute in though. This doesn't help the argument, but the cars have changed so much, it's like apples vs. oranges.
-Might also remember, most all early muscle cars are now either modified at least some, and/or worn to a frazzle, not very many represent the original performance level.
 
#28 ·
It might could be done (if the trunk was filled w/turbos as well as under the hood), but what I would ask, is WHY?

You can get stupid power from one or two turbos, let alone 6. The cost and complexity would be overwhelming, and for a questionable outcome. Ford gets an easy 500 HP w/just one small blower on a 5.4 mod motor in the GT500, so again, why 6 turbos?

OT- Does anyone remember Rick Dobbertin's Pontiac J-2000 that had the 20 port nitrous equipped, twice turbo'ed, twice supercharged (as in roots) SBC that was all the rage? Butt-ugly body, IMO- but total overkill AFA the engine went.



It was wild enough for AMT to make a model of it. Dobbertin also had a Nova w/two turbos and one blower, actually looked like a driver compared to the J-2000 deal.

 
#29 · (Edited)
I was looking at the Chevy website today you can get a 2011 Camaro with I think it was a 6.2liter 426hp v-8 it cost an additional 10 thousand above base price but deffinatly more suitable for what a Camaro is supposed to be.
the Standard V-6 300hp is great for a 6 cyl espeacially from the factory, but just my opinion I would want the V-8.
 
#37 ·
matt167 said:
2011 Mustang has the 305 hp Ecoboost V6 as a baseline option.. I'v never thought 6cyls as " muscle car " engines. but there is no doubt, that engine is a contender.. even being a base line engine, it will be the flag ship in the mustang lineup.. with a 2010 Mustang GT having 315 hp, performance on that has to be increased, otherwise there is no need for the V8 GT.... The K code 1965-1967 289 Mustang was 271 hp. curb weight on a new Mustang is ~1,500 lbs ~ heavier but 305 hp, is figured with all assessorys working, not Just the water pump like the K code.. 6cyls never got past 120 hp stock, and it takes some work to get them to 300 hp, and lots of it wasn't available when they were new
With whats available from the factory these days 300HP is good but not for muscle car you can get just about anything these days with around 300HP the Chevy Colorado has 300HP, thats the replacement for the S10 truck i would imagine thats a pretty light vehicle, all the full size trucks come with more than 300HP, alot of the sedans and such I would guess will be close to 300HP
 
#39 ·
cobalt327 said:
I'm not going to play the "I lived through the whole scene" card on you. Suffice to say I have seen a few things through the years that lead me to say what I do, and I'll leave it at that.
What you say seems right on track as far as I'm concerned.
Many older muscle, when NOT modified, wouldn't be able to keep up to my wife's Magnum R/T. It's not a top performance model, it's got A/C, power everything, gets great gas mileage, runs smooth, never overheats, and it's a low 14 second car with no effort- stick it into drive and floor the gas pedal.

I love the old musclecars and old cars in general- they ooooze personality. When it comes to performance numbers however.... technology is technology. The new cars are quicker. Considerably quicker.

I was buying "old musclecars" when they weren't old cars. Try daily driving a 1967 Camaro back in 1967 and a 2010 Camaro in 2010.
One of the cars will start every time, drive smoothly, and perform consistently. It's flawless for the most part as far as transportation goes.
Now jump in a TRUE "old musclecar", pump the pedal a few times, warm it up, and watch the gauges as you drive to work.
The cars are different animals, the times are completely different.

A well sorted original musclecar is STILL not as "drivable" as the late model stuff. I know many people don't like to hear it, because I don't like it much myself, but that is the way it is.

Mildly modded cars or "day two" cars aren't much different- a 1969 musclecar with headers and a good tune won't impress the guy in a brand new Jeep SRT8 from stoplight to stoplight. It's strange, it seems wrong, but it's true.

My wife has a Magnum R/T, I own nothing but OLD stuff, my newest car at present is a 1974 Jensen Interceptor 440 2x4bbl.
 
#40 ·
CrazyMoparGuy, I know it might not seem like it but I do agree with all of what you said(some of my comments might seem to contradict).
I know the car companies are trying to make some cool cars again and by offering them with a 6 Cyl they are making them more affordable all thats great, but I remember even in the 80's & 90's seeing cars come into the shop (camaro's Mustangs) with V-6's and just looking at them and thinking something is wrong with that picture and I guess I never have gotten that out of head.
those kinds of cars to me are supposed to be factory hotrods/performance cars and a performance car/ hotrod should look, sound and perform better than the other just regular cars out there. the whole if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck its probably a duck thing. A hotrod/ performance car should be bigger and better than the average car on the road, if every other car on the road has 300hp v6 then these cars should have something bigger and better.
 
#41 ·
Here is something to think about, Hyundai is now making cars that will spank many of the older cars. Look at the Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the 306hp V6, right now it is direct competition for the new V6 Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers. There is a 5.0L 429hp V8 in the works too, so it will be able to take on the higher models too.
 
#43 ·
I wonder if hotrodders from the 40' and 50's looked at the cars coming from Detriot in the 60's in the same way die-hard classic muscle car people do today's new muscle...

I mean think about it, how would a guy that had just spent who knows how long porting and relieving a flathead ford, trying to massage every last pony, feel when somebody could buy a stock 454SS Chevelle and leave him in the dust.
 
#44 ·
454headache said:
I wonder if hotrodders from the 40' and 50's looked at the cars coming from Detriot in the 60's in the same way die-hard classic muscle car people do today's new muscle...

I mean think about it, how would a guy that had just spent who knows how long porting and relieving a flathead ford, trying to massage every last pony, feel when somebody could buy a stock 454SS Chevelle and leave him in the dust.
Actually I'd say pretty good, knowing he has a load of knowledge and skills. owns the car, can fix the car not afraid to drive the car. The new car buyer has a line of credit, debt, on some iron he just drove off a lot and lost 30% of its value ... and what if it breaks more dedt
 
#46 ·
Crazy Mopar Guy said:
No, warranty.
That's why quite a large section of new car buyers ARE new car buyers!

warranty that is a funny one ..... what is that costing new car buyer 20+ grand, plus new car buyer gets to take his car back ... mm 3 - 4 times to get it fixed, if they change enough parts. Most of the time the repairs are worse then the original problem ... no thanks, newer is cheeper.

Like I said the guy with the grease on his hands has a much happier car owning experience .......... with a whole lot less hassle... yeah 20 + grand, aka debt, a warranty, car back and forth, waiting in line, if one has the time to waste...... what a deal !!

Just having some fun, not trying to hurt new car buyer's feelings but the statement just comes across like something a salesmen or the government would say ...

We will take good care of you and your problems just give me your money.. pay no attention to the fact we do not know what we are doing ..just a minor problem and we will fix that shortly .
 
#47 ·
A new car has a warranty is the point. My new car hasn't needed any warranty work at all, so I cannot speak to how well the problems would have been taken care of other than to say the problems (IF they had existed in the first place) WOULD have been properly dealt with- even if it took my "overseeing" the repairs.

Don't want to pay for a new muscle car and suffer the depreciation and warranty costs? That's easily resolved- do what 90% of the old muscle car buyers did, back in the day- buy USED! :rolleyes:
 
#48 ·
BTW, here at least, IF service outside normal maintenance is required, the dealer will- at your request- either come out an pick up your car and return it after the repairs or will chauffeur you home from dropping the car off, then return to take you back to get your car. If this is during working hours, they do the same think, except drive you to and from work.

Perhaps if you actually owned a new car, you might find these things out for yourself- but in the meantime, don't yammer on about things that you obviously know not one damned thing about.
 
#50 · (Edited)
302 Z28 said:
I just can't see 30+ years from now a 2010 Hyundai being a collector car though :pain: .

Vince
Last evening on the B/J auction on Speed, there was a repainted Trans Am, like an '83 that was donated to a vo-tech in CA because there was some damage to it in transit, I guess it was a tax write-off.

The kids repainted the car two or three times but was otherwise an unmolested vehicle w/83 miles on it IIRC!!

It had the cross fire engine, sold for something like $14K- which was a lot more than I thought it was worth. But if it had been any kind of a collector car, it would have sold for a ton more than that.

I suspect the 2010 Hyundai will be in the same position in the years to come.
 
#51 ·
pepi said:
warranty that is a funny one ..... what is that costing new car buyer 20+ grand, plus new car buyer gets to take his car back ... mm 3 - 4 times to get it fixed, if they change enough parts. Most of the time the repairs are worse then the original problem ... no thanks, newer is cheeper.

Like I said the guy with the grease on his hands has a much happier car owning experience .......... with a whole lot less hassle... yeah 20 + grand, aka debt, a warranty, car back and forth, waiting in line, if one has the time to waste...... what a deal !!

Just having some fun, not trying to hurt new car buyer's feelings but the statement just comes across like something a salesmen or the government would say ...

We will take good care of you and your problems just give me your money.. pay no attention to the fact we do not know what we are doing ..just a minor problem and we will fix that shortly .
I think Cobalt covered you pretty well.... but let me add....

The dealership mechanic "idiot" doing warranty work is better than more than just a few "backyard mechanics" with grease all over their hands working on their own cars. I'm sure the dealership mechanics that aren't the world's greatest think they are better than they are. I also think a lot of guys working on their own cars to save money aren't as good as THEY think they are.
Many people with older musclecars PAY shops to work on their cars. These shops employ the ocassional dummy, just like dealerships do.

Here is the part that flies over your head, IMO anyways...

Many people nowadays don't want a car that requires constant work. Many people don't want a car they can't turn the key, put it into gear, and drive away in. Many people don't want poor gas mileage, less than optimal drivability, lack a creature comforts, many people don't want to stare at gauges on their daily commute, they want to watch their GPS and navigation. Many people like cars that LOOK cool to them, PERFORM better than most commuter cars, and if something goes wrong they make a phone call, drive a courtesy car, and pick up the car when it is finished.
IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

My wife's Magnum R/T hasn't had any troubles at 65,000+k so far. It had a recall for a trans o-ring which was done during a scheduled oil change so it wasn't even something to mention, but that was it- so far.

The new cars are built pretty well in general, the build quality is up from the 1960's, I can assure you.

I'm an old car fan because of the old car's PERSONALITIES, not because of their superiority in every category over a new car.
Some old cars are killer cool as far as the look, the feel, etc- but new cars are technologically superior, and that's just a fact.

I would take my Jensen Interceptor, 2x4bbl 440 and it's warts and all 1974 build quality any day over a new car, but stock vs stock the new cars would make my choice look silly.
IMO anyways...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top