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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leldai73
what kind of run out did you find in the three jaw? I assume thats what the indicator is about. It's worth getting a few different sized pins and checking the chuck at a few different spots to account for uneven wear in the scroll.

Good pointer about the scroll. My first check said .003" total at the pin, and the chuck looks well used. That is adequate for what I usually do.
I joined the practicalmachinist forum, and asked some setup/ drive repair questions. Got just a few answers.

Later, mikey

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2008, 11:04 AM
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What a find! Way to go Mikey! My dad was a master tool maker and use to use a lathe simlar to the one you have. His was a larger version but I recall the name was the same. Very powerful lathe and well made. That will last you quite a while. I still have a few collett laying around from my dad. I believe they are various sizes. Not sure if you need any? Let me know.
Hey, now I know who I can call on for parts that I need to have made or lathe work done to... Thanks for posting Mikey!

Last edited by kleen56; 11-29-2008 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:49 PM
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Niiiice! How many HP? She should be able to take a 10HP motor easy. You could really hog some metal with that thing.

Take some time to get her dialed in and change the oil in the headstock, good time to check the bearings too...just pull off the top and have a look. Those old Herc's are sweet, make sure the oil pump is still pumping in the sight glass...thats the only thing you need to keep an eye on.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck
Niiiice! How many HP? She should be able to take a 10HP motor easy. You could really hog some metal with that thing.

Take some time to get her dialed in and change the oil in the headstock, good time to check the bearings too...just pull off the top and have a look. Those old Herc's are sweet, make sure the oil pump is still pumping in the sight glass...thats the only thing you need to keep an eye on.

I believe it has a 5 HP 3 phase motor, but I'm not sure ,( I have 3 phase in my shop) I had a 3" piece of Aluminum and tried taking an .080" cut at 960 rpm..it didn't slow down at all. The chuck wasn't too keen on holding the part though, so I don't think I'll be doing too much of that.

I already changed the oil in the headstock, trans and apron, (the recommended oil is iso 46 hydraulic fluid), the oil pump sight glass shows that oil is flowing to the headstock bearings. (neat feature, little bubbles are present to show flow.)

I need to figure out how to check the headstock bearings, if I pry on the chuck a little with a 2x4 I can get about .001 movement. I would think that should be zero.

Now I can make the steel inserts for my rear end alignment fixture, my Sheldon would not do it without spending a ton of time.

New interiors- that is a nice lathe you have, live tooling is a great addition. Making keyways and flats on steering shafts is a few things you can do with that. Figure out a way to index your chuck with degree marks and you could cut splines too. Once I made a tool post grinder out of an old pool pump motor for surfacing motorcycle disc brake rotors.



Later, mikey
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Old 11-30-2008, 03:20 PM
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careful with the tool post grinder...the fine grit that comes off of them will destroy your ways...if you have to use one put lots and lots and lots of rags, every where...then put more.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leldai73
careful with the tool post grinder...the fine grit that comes off of them will destroy your ways...if you have to use one put lots and lots and lots of rags, every where...then put more.
Good tip. It's a good thing I don't use that grinder very often.

Later, mikey
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:17 AM
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I am so jealous! What a great find-looks like you'll get a lot of use out of that one, great job Mikey!
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:48 AM
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Mikey,
The .001 your seeing at the chuck may just be deflection and not actual looseness in the spindle bearings. most lathe spindles have tapered bearings or angular contact bearings. A more accurate method to check for clearance is to check for end play in the spindle much like you check end play on a crankshaft. it would also be best to check it with a .0001 indicator. There should be no end play. also, check when the bearings are cold as they will tighten slightly when they warm up. If they are loose, most all lathe spindles have adjustment for bearing preload. Pretty rare for spindle bearings to go bad on lathes with a constant oil gearbox. If you can turn a piece and it checks round and has a decent finish you should be good to go.
Just picked up an old lathe myself, good old American iron. It's a 12 1/2 x 42 Cincinnati with the hydra shift gear selector. It's a little smaller, swing wise, than I wanted but lathes in the 14 to 20" swing range command more money than i could justify I traded an old honda civic for it so I don't have much invested. It was made in 1962. I found that out when i called Cincinnati to get a price on the worn out cross feed screw and nut. speaking of nuts, I had to hang on to mine when they quoted the price for the screw nut combo $2200.00 . Fortunately I'm a decent machinist and a machine tool mechanic by trade so i'll make my own. I'm also going to have to scrape the ways and correct the geometry but it's a nice solid foundation to start with. I already started scraping some of ways and you would not believe the difference in the quality of the iron machine to machine. Older American machines in particular, scrape harder because the castings have more alloy added to be more wear resistant. a fair number of the imported machine ways I've scraped are quite soft and wear quickly.
Haven't worked on many Italian machines, but that one looks to be a decent machine.
Good Luck with it.
Make lots of cool stuff.

Ed
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2008, 12:20 PM
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Thanks Ed

I have a dial indicator that measures in tenths, I'll hook it up and check it like you said. Unless it is way off I'll probably leave well enough alone, as I'm not making parts for guided nuclear missiles I did find the big nut for bearing preload, easy to get to from the top.

My friend who used to rehab machines liked the imports because the ways were so easy to scrape.

I found that when I had to replace the nut on the Y axis of my mill that mcmaster carr had large OD, precision bronze acme nuts in the right pitch, all I had to do was machine the outside and cut a keyway so it fit in the bracket on the slide. It was a split nut, so it got sawn in half and it worked out fine with all of the backlash adjustability still intact. They sell precision acme threaded shafts as well.

They also sell precision ball screws and ball nuts for table/whatever positioning, but I didn't want to go to that expense.

One thing I had to fix on this lathe was the longitudal feed drive gear in the bottom of the apron. Somehow the key that was supposed to let the feed shaft turn the gear was gone... No keyway, no evidence of a sheared key, no evidence that there had ever been a key. It appeared that the gear was machined with the key integral in the bore.

The gear had 2 extensions that tapered bearings were pressed on, so I removed the gear, cut a slot from the outside in one of the bearing journals, and brazed a key in. The bearing is a pressfit over the area where I made the slot, so I'm not worried about splitting the gear.

I like repairing this old stuff...helps me get aqainted with my machinery.

That Cinncinanti is a great machine, I love the American iron too.

Later, mikey
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2008, 11:17 PM
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Cool lathe, when I was at machining school a few years ago we had two graziano sag 12 machines out of maybe 40 lathes and they were the best to work with. The sag 12 had a cool feature in that you could change the spindle speed on the fly without stopping the machine, it had some fancy electromagnetic clutched gearbox or something. Worked nice but expensive to fix!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2008, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiscus
Cool lathe, when I was at machining school a few years ago we had two graziano sag 12 machines out of maybe 40 lathes and they were the best to work with. The sag 12 had a cool feature in that you could change the spindle speed on the fly without stopping the machine, it had some fancy electromagnetic clutched gearbox or something. Worked nice but expensive to fix!
Kewl

If you do that running speed change with my Sag14 it lets you know straight away that it doesn't do that.

In fact, because the motor is always spinning the clutch and input drive gears, I decided if I didn't want to hear gears a grinding I shut it off altogether.

Later, mikey
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2008, 07:12 AM
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I wish I could have gone that route with ready made acme screw and nut but this lathe has a bastard size screw. Comes in around 9/16 X 8 pitch..5/8 is too big to fit in the same area and 1/2 I'm afraid would be to small. I worked in a job shop in the seventies and they were to cheap to buy any repair parts so I got pretty good at single point cutting acme threads because guys were always trashing nuts and screws. I even had to build a fixture to re-thread half nuts. The weld shop would braze up the old ones and I'd re-thread them. We had quite a few pieces of equipment that were turn of the century old. Big lathes that still had babbitt bearing spindles. I know how to scrape those in too if you need one done

You would not want to use ball screws on a manual machine Mikey. The lack of friction will either push the tool away or suck it in.
You're right, the drive gear had to have some sort of key, sounds like you worked it out though.

I need to acquire a steady rest for this machine so I can fix my Eagle forged crank I bought for my rambler project. The shoulder for the flywheel is .003 too big and the bore for the pilot bushing doesn't run true to the mains.

Again, good luck with your new toy.
If I can help, let me know.

Ed
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2008, 08:34 PM
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re: New toy for mikey

seeing we are talking laths, can some one explain to me how to use the feature to cut thread (inside or outer) I bought a lathe about 2 years ago, and i still can't figure it out I'm no expert machinist but i do get along with it pretty good, It has both metric and eng. threading capability. I under stand the settings, but how to start at the same point when going back over your thread to cut it deeper.....
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2008, 10:37 PM
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I'm sure the real machinists on this thread (there are some ), will tell you the correct way to thread stuff, but I'll toss my way out there too. First off, I never learned to use a threading dial, mainly because my old one did not have a threading dial.. So I made up a way that worked for me.

Set the machine on slowest spindle speed and get your feed settings right.

I would set the cross slide to cut my threads about 1/3 the way deep, engage the lead nut, start the lathe up, and cut my first pass...as I approached the end of my length of threads, I'd back out the bit so it cleared the workpiece, then stop the lathe. I did this so that I would not break the tip off the bit ..it will break if you back the tool out at a dead stop.

Then reverse the lathe so the spindle is turning in reverse, and the carriage travels back to the thread starting point. Don't reverse the lead screw setting or things will get really screwy.. Do not disengage the lead nut or you will lose your place.. (something tells me that is what that thread dial is about..hehe)
Set the machine to forward again and set the bit so it is another 3rd of the way of your final depth.
Repeat above procedure until the threads are the right depth. I would always follow with a threading die or thread file to clean the threads up so the mating part will go together nicely. Deep threads get 4 or 5 passes, instead of 3..Use a good cutting fluid. Use a preground lathe tool for threads or get a thread gauge so you can grind your bits properly.

I'm ready to learn how to do it right as well. My new machine has a threading dial.

Later, mikey
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2008, 10:43 PM
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Basically just pick a number on the dial and engage the split nut at that number. Any time you want to make another pass just re-engage at the same place on the dial, and your tool should be in ther perfect spot. Its been a while but I think you can engage in other places on the dial and it will work also, I don't remember the details. Also for threading to get a decent finish I found it helpful to make light cuts and use oil. If you want to get really precise with the work you can get measuring pins and cut the tread to specifications that are in a big chart in machinery's handbook.
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