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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 04:01 AM
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typically...your machine may be different...even number threads can be engaged at any number, odd numbered threads at even numbers and metric threads you have to leave the lead screw engaged like mikey described...if I didn't have to leave for work in 5 minutes i could get really into this....single point threading is one of my favorite things to do...hopefully they have some for me at work. I'll post my method when i get home.

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Old 12-05-2008, 09:51 AM
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New toy for mikey

Thanks for the info, I'm getting excited, I love screwing around.....with the lathe that is......I think the best thing to do is get out there and experiment. Here in Minnesota, with no heat in the garage, i will have to wait till it warms up a little, or dress like a Eskimo........
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 06:28 PM
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Ok...I didn't have any single point threading to do today...but I think i can remember the process...stay with me this could get a little involved.

to begin with you need a few things

-obviously a lathe capable of cutting threads

-an appropriate tool, for most threads its just a 60 degree V with a little radius on the end, easy enough to make out of a blank piece of tool steel with a bench grinder and a honing stone, or if you have the budget, carbide insert threaders are the cats a**.

a "fish tail gauge" used both to set the tool square to the work, and as a pattern to grind the tool. pictured here

-thread pitch gauges to verify you are cutting the threads you want to cut.
pictured here

-something to measure your thread with, be it a nut (just stop cutting when it screws on), a micrometer and appropriate sized wires (which is another topic altogether), or a set of pitch micrometers.

-a machineries hand book to look up some crucial information....this one is sorta optional because you can find a lot of the information you need on the internet.

once you have all of those things collected you can cut your thread, what I do is get a piece of paper and draw a picture of the thread with some dimensions. things like what thread, 1/2-13 for instance, length, and most importantly Major diameter and Pitch diameter. the last two are fairly important so i'll define them

Major diameter: the outside diameter of the thread, the size you will turn the blank before you thread it. for our example 1/2-13 (UNC 2a..don't worry about that part, but its on the chart so I'm going to mention it) the major diameter can be from .4876 to .4985 of an inch as per http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...readlimits.htm.
My hand book is in my tool box...which is in my car, and its cold out.

Pitch diamater:...is a little more complicated...its the "imaginary diameter where the width of the thread and the width of the space between threads is equal". this is the important one...don't let it scare you...it may be irrelevant for very basic purposes. if your not working to a print you can just use a nut and test fit it occasionally until it threads on. and the average guy working on his hot rod probably doesn't work to a print.

so with all that written down I'll turn my blank to the major diameter. and then set the lathe to cut the thread I want.

once i have the lathe set I turn the compound rest (the smaller slide you can turn to any angle on top of the cross slide) to 1/2 the included angle of the thread. for a standard thread be it american or metric this is 30 degrees off of 90. in other words put the compound parallel with the face of chuck then turn it 30 degrees counter clockwise.so it looks kinda like this \...sorry i don't have a picture.

once the compound is at the proper angle set the tool square to the work using the fish tail gauge

then make sure you have at least .100 thousandths travel in the compound, start the lathe and touch the tool off using the cross slide.

once the tool is touched off zero both the cross slide and the compound.

now set your lathe to the fastest speed you feel you can control, for some people its the slowest speed the lathe has, but the faster the better because it will improve surface finish. It's all about practice and what your comfortable with.

place the tool to the right of the work and feed the compound in about .001 of an inch and engage the half nut (with a lever on your lathe) when the thread dial is on any even number. (because we're cutting a 1/2-13 and its an odd number)

once the tool has progressed to the to the end the thread simultaneously disengage the half nut and pull back the cross slide. this is where some timing and coordination come in handy.

the .001 inch pass should have left a very light scratch in the blank, now use your thread pitch gauge to verify your set up for the right thread. if its wrong, just reset the lathe gear box and try again.

once you've verified you have the correct thread put your tool back to where you started and take the cross slide back to 0, then repeat the feed in, engage half nut, pull out, move tool to beginning of thread, feed in process feeding in up to .010 of an inch on the first pass then progressively less the deeper you go. you'll get down to around .002 to .001 of an inch at a pass.

when it starts to look like a thread try to thread the nut on...if it doesn't thread on take a little more, don't be shy with the cutting fluid...and make sure you don't take the tool or the work out of the lathe until your done other wise you "lose the thread" and thats bad.

hope this helps...I know its a little hard to follow, don't be afraid to Google the subject, get a book, or the best thing to do, ask someone who knows to show you.

Last edited by leldai73; 12-05-2008 at 06:37 PM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 06:38 PM
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Good post. Now using that thread dial makes sense.
One question though, why do you turn the compound rest counterclockwise 30*? I always thought that as long as the bit was positioned correctly that it didn't matter where the compound rest was.

Also, good tip about the suggested depth of cut per pass..I could never figure out why my threads looked cut with an axe and were not smooth on the sides...(sometimes simple things like that escape me ) I always thought it was the way I ground the bit or had it positioned..(just under center)

Later, mikey
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:53 PM
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the compound is turned at 30 degrees so that as the tool is fed in its only cutting on one side. It took me a little bit to visualize this...but it made sense eventually. some people will put the compound at 29.5 degrees or feed in with the cross slide on the last few passes to clean up both sides...I've never really bothered but I've got ALOT to learn myself so it may be a better method.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:16 PM
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That makes perfect sense now..keep from cutting so much with both sides of the tool. Less work for the tool, less heat too. I have learned something valuable today.
Thank you.

Later, mikey
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:34 AM
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Mikey, congrats on your find. I am not a machinist but my partner is a retired master tool and die maker that started with a 4 year apprenticeship with TRW. We have an old South Bend quick change with treading capability and he can thread anything, inside or outside, but I am clueless. I enjoyed reading through this thread and you guys have motivated me to go back to school at the young age of 70. There is a Vo-Tech here so tomorrow, I will find out what it takes to start the basic course. We have all the bells and whistles to do the tough stuff so all this will cost me is the time and course(s) and my VA eligibility may still pay for that.

Thanks, guys.

Trees
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2008, 11:11 AM
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That is awesome trees, I am not formally trained in anything, although I did have as much machine shop in HS as they would let me....When I opened my shop, I got a small table top mill, then a small lathe, and just started playing around.making chips and breaking stuff .

. Then I worked my way up to a better mill, then a better lathe, asked questions as I needed to, and now I am able to make most of the things I need in the shop. As you can see, I am still learning too.
Collecting the various tooling can be a bigger expense than the machinery itself...I'm always on the lookout for stuff like that at the swapmeets and garage sales.

Later, mikey
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Old 12-07-2008, 08:04 PM
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Mikey, my partner owned his own shop in Cleveland, Ohio for several years and bought a lot of tools and tooling from a dealer. His half brother was also a machinist and shop owner that bought from the same dealer. He called us and said the old dealer, long retired was dieing of cancer and wanted to sell his hobby machine shop in his basement. He sent us a short list of the key items and said the entire price was $2500 and was worth a lot more. We bought it based on his recommendation and beat feet with a 3/4 ton pu and a 5X10 closed trailer. When i walked into the basement, I immediately asked for the Yellow Pages and rented a one way box van (17 footer was the largest I could find) We filled the box van floor (can't stack steel very high), the trailer and the PU and still had to leave stuff. The South Bend lathe, a small horizontal mill, a metal shaper, a We;;s metal band saw, and a Lincoln Welder were some of the big ticket items, but all the tooling, mics, guages, parallels, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, surface grinder, hundreds of reamers up to 1.5 inches, twist drills, bottom drils, step drills, carbide drills, end mills, collets of all sizes, and drill chucks, straight and Morse Taper, steady rest. The list goes on. We have kept a complete set of reamers and about a dozen of every twist drill size imaginable. We have enough tool steel to last a lifetime. We have sold enough stuff at flea market/swap meets to more than return our investment and pay for the trip. We have since found that there are a lot of hobby basment/garage machine shops out there that have some good stuff that has had little use and can be had for a song, relatively speaking.

Trees
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:14 PM
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Oh man! You are set to make chips for life.

later, mikey
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Old 12-08-2008, 07:39 PM
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I spotted this horizontal milling machine at the fall farm show/auction. These machines are/were owned by the farm and were part of the original farm owners machine shop.

I almost did not bid because it's easy to buy stuff, but then never get it to work. There was a reserve price, but I bid...then nobody else bid. So, the auctioneer said "no sale" but the guys who run the farm machine shop said to accept my $100 bid.




Now to get it home, along with a car, and other auction buys...like that blue orchard sprayer with 2 cherry 40 ford wheels . The chevy can take the weight Ok.


We used my sons crawler bucket loader to get it in the shop..through the pass door. That was fun. The crawler he got at the summer show. We buy too much stuff there


Just this weekend I figured out the many electric controls to put on the Ebay 3 phase converter...and it now works. But, sure enough, the end mill toolholder is worn on the bore. I found a new surplus one on ebay for $9.

I'm going to try to cut new window regulator gears for my 32 Nash as soon as I receive the tool holder.

I also found a way to mount a 4 jaw on my 1900 lathe, so I could make a new oil pump gear out of a modern spur gear, for the 1918 studebaker. it worked good, and the stude runs fine now...with oil pressure..
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:34 PM
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F&J, Even if it is total junk and you can't get anything on it to work you would probably get more than what you paid for it from a scrap dealer!
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:41 AM
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re: New toy for mikey

Hay, Your my type of guy, Look at all that neat junk.........Good thing i was not there...About 6 months ago i bought a Kalamazoo Horizontal saw, this weighs about 800 lb. 1" blade, hydraulics,14" , liquid cooling pump, real nice, $125...I sold it on ebay about 2 weeks after i bought it, ($550 ) the buyer paid with Money Order, He has never come to pick it up. I contacted him about 3 months ago, he said "Yea i'll send a truck, it never came, saw is still in my barn.....I hope he's not here on the HR board.......
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:37 AM
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I too am a connoisseur of fine junk!

I have several old tractors in various stages of restoration and a 1968 John Deere 350 bulldozer which is my pet project at the moment. Now you guys have me yearning for that new lathe I have been thinking about for the last couple of years. I have given up on finding something like Mikey stol...err, traded for, so I will probably just buy a new Chinese import, Grizzly has a 13x40 that has developed quite a following with the home machinist crowd and I can buy it for less than rebuilding my Summitt. Certainly nowhere the quality of the old American or European iron but OK for what I need it for.
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:49 AM
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Oldred- I joined a website called http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/index.php
and they have a classified section with some quality stuff for reasonable prices.

Also, I looked on craigslist and saw some good deals on there for machinery.

Later, mikey
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