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newb in training //327..

1K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  64nailhead 
#1 ·
hi there, im new to the under the hood scene but i'm gaining more knowledge each day. i happened to come across a 327 engine from a 1966 el camino (250 hp im assuming) for 100$ in relatively decent shape for the price and what better way to learn the small block chevy engine than hands on experience disassembling and reassembling the engine making modifications. my goals for this engine are relatively easy, im aiming for a nice performing engine (300-350 hp) for street and daily driving use. i'm wanting to get the most out of this engine durability wise and performance, it will be placed inside of my 1979 Chevrolet Malibu project. what direction would you guys point me, and what advice can you offer me as where to begin on this process. I've been reading a lot of David Vizard's How to rebuild a sbc book and am taking notes from that, what builds would you guys suggest to attain this? pictures of engine attached below inb4 the no engine stand rants. peace and love :pimp:
 

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#2 ·
If you want to gain the knowledge, then have at the 327. An easier and more reliable way to get to your goal is to grab post'87 350 roller block and use the OEM roller setup.

Whether building the 327 or grabbing another block, grab a set of Vortec heads for it - it is not recommended to put much many into any of the stock heads from that era other than for nostalgia purposes. I say with this experience, a few years back we put about $600 into set of stock 327 heads - total waste of money IMO. We should've went with the Vortecs (hindsight being 20/20).

What's your budget?

Best of luck and welcome to the board!
 
#3 ·
I appreciate your opinion and welcoming. I will look into those vortec heads. What makes you suggest them as well? I have no real budget my goal is to get the most hands on experience I can get from this. I wouldn't mind staying between the cheapest route if it's possible without updating the whole engine to get it how I want to performance wise to a couple grand being invested to making it into the engine I want, altogether which ever price tag that comes with I will do what I have to do to do it.
 
#7 ·
I suppose I should've stated that in the original post, casting number 3844457 retried from nastyz28 Chevy casting lists "1964-65 3844457 327 4 iron WCFB, Qjet A B X Y/250hp, Srvc repl."

That's the intake manifold what you need to get are the block and head casting numbers. The block will be on the bell housing mounting flange behind the number 7 cylinder (drivers side rear). The head will be a long number generally between the second to third cylinder from the front or back ends of the head. On the flat surface of the block just ahead of the right (passenger) side head will be a stamped code with the build date and application code of two or three letters.


Before you pull the main caps loose check to see if they are numbered. Except for number 5 the thrust main the others look the same but are specifically mated to their location, if you loose track of this the block with the main caps will have to be align bored or honed to restore proper bearing alignment. Each cap should have a cast in arrow pointing in the forward direction, if they don't mark this also. Marks can be made with a punch or you can buy a number and symbol punch set Harbor Freight has these at a reasonable cost. This will most likely be a small main journal block keep that in mind when ordering bearings but measure to be sure. Again you can get a decent and inexpensive set of micrometers from Harbor Freight, yes becoming an engine builder requires you buy some tools.


The heads are obsolete for several reasons one the Chevy head is given to cracking, these and the block do need to be professionally inspected for cracks before you do anything else besides cleaning. Finding a crack after all the machining is done is like flushing your wallet down the toilet. Another problem with the heads is that modern lead free fuels require hardened exhaust seats a 327 would not have these and they are necessary for a modern engine to survive with unleaded fuel. Then of course is the cost of a valve job which for old heads is also going to include guide replacement/repair. It doesn't take long to realize that modern heads can be had for about the same money and they deliver much more power without having to resort to monster camshafts and unlivable compression ratios to get it. Certain the L31 Vortec is the first choice as a means of solving all of these problems, but there are also many iron and aluminum aftermarket copies of the L31 that are sturdier and don't need a Vortec unique intake manifold. The aluminum heads save about 40 to 50 pounds off the engine and allow higher compression ratios.


Much the same can be said for intake manifolds the modern aluminum intake does a quantum better job at distributing mixture to the cylinders and knocks off several pounds of weight at the same time.


Pistons are big concern you need to be sure to avoid rebuilder pistons as these use a short deck height that maintains production compression ratios when the head deck of the block is zero clearance milled. These are among the things that need to be figured out before buying parts. An element of the block inspection is to determine whether the head deck requires milling to restore its surface. This will drive on the distance or clearance that exists between the piston crown (top surface) and the head deck of the block. This impacts compression ratio, and squish/quench function between the piston crown and combustion chamber. It also affects the choice of head gasket thickness and the type of head material. A cast iron head can use a thin shim gasket of .015 to .019 inch where an aluminum head needs a composition gasket which will be .028 to .053 inch. This thickness affects compression ratio and squish/quench clearance which to keep the latter optimized will for an aluminum head work best if the block's head deck is milled to zero clearance with respect to the piston crown when it is at TDC. typically you want the squish/quench clearance to be very close to .040 inch. The piston in regard to the burn works best when it is a flat top or a D dish, the build up of the dimensions I've talked about will drive this answer to arrive at a compression ratio the engine can live with on modern fuels.


The fuels available today also drive the cam for best power and efficiency. The cams of the 1960s and 70's are still available and popular but do not build an efficient engine especially with regard to how compression ratios are limited by modern fuels. The answer to this is modern cams with shortened ramps and increases to the lift rate and total lift. The cam has to work with the compression ratio but the cam essentially establishes the compression ratio not that you can't go the other way but fixing any errors gets expensive so a lot of math needs to be done before spending money.


Basically you need to figure on how much power you want and then select the components that build that power. This isn't as simple as it sounds and there's a lot of people out there who really don't understand this.


Bogie
 
#10 ·
Thank you guys for your thoughts I have located the engine suffix code being 'HA' searched that up and came across this
"HA 1965 327CID 4 spd tran. std 275HP 4BBL full size/Camaro" also I do not plan on purchasing any parts until I have disassembled the original engine and inspected the stock parts. From there I will take it to a local machine shop to be inspected by a professional eye and go from there. I will not be making any adjustments until more of small block chevy performance books arrive so I can get a closer understanding of what process I need to begin with when blueprinting my ideal engine.
 
#12 ·
Came across a pair of 461 camel heads, for a staggering price of 50$ in decent condition, how do these match up compared to the Vortec heads insisted above?



other than for nostalgia reasons do these heads match up and compete relatively good against Vortecs or should I just stick with the newer updated heads.
 
#16 ·
Used Vortecs need to be checked for cracks as well as they are crack prone for several reasons. Finding a set of good, used, unchecked is a real c4rap shoot, but reworked, checked heads can be found for well under $600 and maybe as little as $400.

No one has really mentioned it, but if you have the budget to handle a set of aluminum heads $1000-1200, then there are heads available much better than the Vortecs. Hence, my original question about your budget.

Heed the advice from others about not buying anything until you have your block, crank and rods checked.
 
#17 ·
The original heads on my 1962 Bel Air 327/300 are #3782461.

The original owner rebuilt those heads in 1986 and retained the original pressed in rocker studs. 1970 Camaro Z28 #3927142 valve springs replaced the stock 1962 Chevrolet 327/300 HP valve springs. The 1970 Z28 valve springs set up at 110 lb @ 1.700" and 270 lb at 1.253" (0.447" valve lift). I have a L79 camshaft in my 1962 Bel Air 327/300 HP engine.

Chevrolet use relatively weak valve springs on the SB engines with factory camshafts. The OE cam lobes have lazy acceleration ramps and use weaker valve springs for less valve train wear, and less warranty problems.
 
#18 ·
Just to change the subject a little..hows the car?..what 's the motor/tranny?,how are the breaks,chassis,rear end,floors,ect..Personaly, I think that malibu is PRICELESS.. these hot rod-able pieces are becoming rarer by the day.IF the car is capable of handleing 300/400 HP, great, but {my opinion} dont blow the budget on the motor if the balljoints are worn out or the break lines are rotten, ect. I hope you can understand my logic gc
 
#19 ·
I've been considering a similar budget street build for a crate 350, and am starting to put a plan together. I'll provide input on some of the ideas I am considering.

Exhaust
long tube headers, 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" full duals with H pipe, low restriction straight through mufflers (maybe turbo mufflers instead if I need to keep noise down)

Intake
Standard dual plane aluminum intake; similar to Edelbrock performer or performer RPM

Carb
Rebuild and use stock Quadrajet if it works well; consider swapping to a Holley double pumper

Heads
Iron Vortecs work well and are relatively cheap, but some have issues with cracks and all must be modified to support more lift; I think an inexpensive (but decent) set of aluminum heads with 64cc or 62cc chambers would be a better choice overall, but I don't know brands well enough to make a recommendation.

Cam
I prefer using something like the Lunati retrofit roller cam conversions, although this raises the price quite a bit. Using a roller cam just seems like a much better choice for overall performance and long term reliability.
If the car is primarily for street cruising I would not want to go too extreme on duration and lift. For example, the Lunati 211/219 @.050 would probably too mild for you, so the 219/227 @ .050 may be a better choice for a street cam in your car. If you swap in a higher stall torque converter and/or lower gears you could use one of their more aggressive cams. Your engine would support more cam, but with an more aggressive cam you will need RPM to get it into the power band.

Anyone have input on a good choice of aluminum heads for an economy SBC build ?

Bruce
 
#20 ·
look up blue printing and study that,do that,,,

basically blue printing is precision hand fitting of all the parts to "exact" specifications. You will have the short block together and apart at least four times before final assembly. You want all bearing clearances matched exactly and the correct clearance for the type and weight oil you will be using. Getting all the machine work perfect will cost about a G-note. Make sure you balance the engine as again "close" is not close enough in my opinion.
CC all the combustion chambers, CC the pistons, make sure all ring gaps are exactly the same gap. Valve spring pressures and installed height need to be precision checked, etc through the entire engine. If you buy a new set of heads (good idea) take them apart and blue print them also,,,
 
#21 ·
X2 ^^^^ Vinnie is spot on.

You can slap it together in day or spend the time measuring and making sure everything is correct. This can drag out the assembly process when you find something that's not correct, but in the end it is well worth it if you ever intend to really crank it up.

For a daily driver, lowest of budget builds it is not necessary. But pushing a SBC into the 350-450 range is not a stock build by any means.
 
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