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Old 05-04-2004, 04:05 PM
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newbie painter

I've had this nova for a few years, and just recently decided i wanted to paint it. so i have it all sanded down, then i started reading these forums. i've never done this before, any advice is welcome. my plan was just to sand down past the paint that was peeling to original paing and spray. now i'm not so sure. the car turns out to be 3 colors, so i'm guessing painting right over the top of all those colors is bad? can i just primer & paint? if i'm reading everything right, it looks like everybody says primer, sealer, spray. why sealer? i'm planning on painting it gunmetal grey, if that makes any difference.

thanks.
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:38 PM
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It really depends on the condition of the current paint. If it is rough and really thick or peeling in places, you should consider total removal and start from bare metal. That is the last resort and should be avoided if at all possible. If the paint is basically sound and not too thick, block sand it smooth starting with coarse grits (80, 100) to level and remove some thickness, drop down to 150 and sand it all over again to further smooth and remove coarse grit scratches, and finish block sand all over w/ with 320 so no scratches will show through paint. If you keep the current paint, you won't need an overall primer - the current paint serves that purpose. You do need to prime w/ high build primer the chips and bare spots that go deep and/or show bare metal then block sand those spots smooth. If the chips are deep, use two part body glaze filler before the primer will make the job easier.

The sealer is the first coat you put on when you do your final paint job and seals all of the old paint and primers from bleeding through and ruining the paint job. Also, you would be surprised how transparent most colors are and without the sealer, the different paint and primer colors can show through. Sealer, wait usually 15 minutes or so, spray color coat, wait per mfgr. instructions again then spray a couple coats of clear.

A LOT of steps are left out of the above but it should answer the questions you asked. Read other threads here for the "rest of the story!"
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:18 AM
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very helpful. i didn't know what sealer was for at all. =\
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:59 PM
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Sealer= Cheap insurance. Its great if you can get a color close to what you are spraying, then the color coats you put on cover quicker. The cheaper basecoat paints are very transparent (omni, limco), most of the colors cover poorly. I would strip it just to be safe. Hate to see you spray expensive paint on top and have it fail. It will be enough doing all that willys told you, that going down to metal won't be that much extra work, plus when paint is thick, it can be hard to featheredge stuff, and if you don't do a good job featheredging, it will show up when you paint.
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Old 05-06-2004, 02:55 PM
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Is the sealer the very last thing after all block sanding right before shooting color? Does the sealer need block sanded?
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Old 05-07-2004, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bfr57
Is the sealer the very last thing after all block sanding right before shooting color? Does the sealer need block sanded?
The sealer is part of the final painting series so doesn't dry or get sanded. Have your surface perfect before starting then spray the sealer, color, clear coats all at once, waiting the few minutes recommended by the manufacturer between coats.

Also, for dark colors I like to use similar color for coverage but for hot rod colors like yellow and red, I like to use whit-white sealer - makes those bright colors pop!
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Old 08-22-2004, 12:14 AM
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Willys (et al)... I see that you say going to bare metal should be a last resort only. Is there any way to sort of gauge how much paint is "not too thick" or is it just something that comes with time? I am going to be painting my car for the first time so I'm really hesitant to mess it up as it might discourage me in the future. I'm going to start in the engine bay, so it's not AS big of a concern there... but it should still look nice obviously. Just to be sure that I've got everything straight here my steps would be:

1. Block sand paint level
2. Grease/Wax Remover
3. Any necessary Body filler (should be applied to bare metal?)
4. Sand said filler
5. Tack cloth to remove dust and whatnot (or should I Grease/Wax Remove again?)
6. Shoot 2K primer (only over low spots and filler?)
6b. Shoot guidecoat
7. Sand smooth, knocking thickness down a bit
8. Shoot sealer close to my base coat (in this case black)
9. Allow above to flash, shoot base coat (let flash and recoat as necessary)
10. Shoot clear
11. Wetsand clear to really make it "pop"

I've read conflicting information in regard to #8 & 9 in that someone said to shoot the sealer, bc, and cc one after another allowing only flash time. Another source actually shot a guidecoat over the sealer (which they shot 2 coats) and smoothed it out again before bc (See #25 & 26). What's the concensus on this one?

If I am adding any type of metallic or pearl flake to the clear, I would shoot the desired amount of coats, then an additional 2-3 coats of clear over this so as to allow for wetsanding correct?

Also, if I'm going to block sand as you suggest, what are the tricks of the trade for getting in all of the nooks and crannies that are commonly found in the engine bay?

Good lord that was a lot of questions, I hope you guys take mercy on me I'm just very eager to get this project off the ground as you can undoubtedly relate to. Thanks in advance!

Last edited by LoafY; 08-22-2004 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 08-22-2004, 12:57 AM
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If you are painting over the factory paint job, by all means do not strip. If the car has been repainted once probably OK. Pro painter use a thickness gauge or better criteria - I am an armature - but in my experience if the edges of the doors adn hood don't have big chips showing several layers that look too thick, it is probably OK to paint over it.

Steps are generally OK but here are some suggestions;

- By definition, body filler is used to repair bad sheet metal so should go over places where you have ground w/ 80 grit and done your best effort at metal finishing. Sticks great to bare clean ground metal.

- The purpose of 2K is to smooth and fill any tiny imperfections left in your body work/bondo so yes only over the repairs.

- The purpose of the guide coat is to show any imperfections you missed in your 2K repairs that are block sanded w/320grit. You only use guide coat until it totally block sands away on those spots. Once they are perfect, block sand the entire car w/320 and you are ready to paint. No need to guide coat the whole car.

- Painting steps now start w/ wax & grease remover then tack rag. You NEVER sand sealer, all that was done in your prep steps above w/ the 2K. Spray sealer, flash, color, flash, two or three clears and you are done. I always do three clear coats 'cause I am not confident in my sanding polishing skills plus these new clears are awesome and more is better. I have never heard of sandign the sealer but that doesn't mean it isn't done. I can't concieve of why you would ever want to do that plus sealers aren't very sanding friendly paints like 2K or the polyester filling primers. If you do wait to sand it, you will still need to spary another coat of sealer over it 'cause it is part of the final painting system.
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Old 08-22-2004, 01:18 AM
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The car is the original color, but I suspect that some shoddy work was done on it at one time or another. Take this shot for example... the color is a blue-green poly but shows through to black and I can't figure out why? [COLOR=red]Pic 1[/COLOR] [color=red]Pic 2[/color]

So as long as you say that this is just me being paranoid, I will level the current paint and go from there. Just to confirm... after doing so, I sand any problem areas down to bare metal with 80 grit, use filler then icing, knock that down, 2k primer over that, guidecoat over same, sand again, and as long as all is well... continue with the sealer, flash, basecoat, flash, clear with pearl, flash, clear, wetsand.

It's not exactly a hotrod, but should keep up with many of them in the speed area; looks will never compare though.
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Old 08-22-2004, 08:58 AM
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'you've got it! Looks like it has just been polished through the color down to the primer but in general that looks like a super base for a repaint. Just be anal with your prep of the surface for painting and it will come out fine.
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Old 08-22-2004, 10:01 AM
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Fantastic! I can't thank you enough.. I'll definitely have to keep you updated on the car's progress.

I suppose I should've asked before, but is there any particular clear that's best to use in the engine bay as it's going to be the most vulnerable to wrenches and things of that nature? There is currently a sticker in there on the driver's side strut tower that says "Hard Clear Coat. Use only approved refinishing materials." Are you familiar with this, or should I just disregard and treat it as any other panel?
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