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Old 09-24-2003, 01:19 AM
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newbie question...EGR?

I was looking at edelbrock's power packages the other day, and it said (EGR)...wut the heck does that mean?

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Old 09-24-2003, 01:26 AM
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EGR is an acronym for Exhaust Gas Recirculation or Retieval or something - here's how it works...

EGR is a system that was installed on motors from 1969 (i believe) and up and what it did or does is takes the exhaust coming off the engine and runs it through a canister that mixes it with fresh air and gas, and feeds it back through the intake on the carburetor - thus effectively helping the environment and your gas mileage by completely (or almost) burning all of the gas that may have not been burned during the first cycle.

It can be a pretty sophisticated piece of work, and the way to tell is to look under your hood... You will know you have EGR if you have a coffee can sized (or similar) canister under your hood that runs to your carb, and has the fuel line and exhaust line to it.

If you are unsure, I would get a Chilton's manual - they have emissions stuff in them, or you just ask a mechanic.
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Old 09-24-2003, 08:45 AM
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Small correction...not meaning any disrespect. The canister is part of the "passive" pollution control devices that works to "recycle" gasoline fumes from the tank through the charcoal instead of venting into the air through the gas cap.

EGR is like you said "Exhaust Gas Recirculation". This came out after PCV's because of emission requirements to reduce the more hazordous nitrogen oxide emissions from the engine which are generated by high temperatures. The EGR valve is like a regulator. The nitrogen oxide gases from the exhaust are pumped back into the air intake "charge" replacing some of the "fresh air". The gases are already combusted, so they do not burn again (as opposed to the theory behind PCV's). The idea is that by adding these gases into the intake charge, the resulting piston combustion is not as hot (literally, the temperature of the explosions are supposed to be cooler).

In turn, having "cooler" combustion is supposed to produce fewer nitrogen oxide emissions, and so the dog chases his tail. The "chemistry" behind it is when nitrogen and oxegen meet in the combustion chamber, higher temperatures cause a chemical bond resulting in the formation of nitrous oxides.

The bad part of the mess is the effect all of this has on timing, preignition, and advance.
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Old 09-24-2003, 09:08 AM
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for the most part what they were asking you was if you needed a manifold that will fit an EGR valve or no. If it says EGR, that means they cut a slot and a couple of holes into it to fit an EGR. Non-EGR means there's no space for it.on the manifold.
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Old 09-24-2003, 10:23 AM
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if you are rebuilding and engine with egr do you have to put it back on? and by haveing it on there are you loseing power?
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Old 09-24-2003, 10:56 AM
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depends on the state you live in, for Californians all smog devices has to be intact and operational for it to pass the visual and functional tests.

so check the emission laws in your state.
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Old 09-24-2003, 11:53 AM
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oops.

Thnx Kaylah - my bad. I always thought they were the same!
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Old 09-24-2003, 01:44 PM
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Too many of those "pieces of insignificant information" stored in the nerdy noodle...really not showing off! Maybe I can show you a picture of my uncle's cyclone fence...or we could go seaching for igneous rock formations.

I think the emission removal idea (EGR) would also depend on what kind of engine you're re-building, and the clean air standards. I wouldn't recommend removing it in any 351 Ford engine, but in an SBC, I might gamble.
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Old 09-24-2003, 01:49 PM
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if I may elaborate on the SBC. If it's pre-1980 my experience says you can do without it. But if you have an electric carb or a TBI, (post 1980) keep it. Otherwise you will have fuel economy problems and you will get SES lights all day long. Especially if your SBC requires a EGR solenoid. basically if the old motor had an EGR valve, I would keep it if I'm just doing a stock rebuild.
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Old 09-24-2003, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kaylah
I wouldn't recommend removing it in any 351 Ford engine, but in an SBC, I might gamble.
Any engine if being modified can be set up without an EGR, unless state inspection is a concern. If you look in my gallery the brown '68 Cougar had a 351W I swiped out of a '69 that was totalled. She ran like a raped ape, no EGR. The EGR's main purpose was to recirculate exhaust into the combustion chamber to lower combustion temps and reduce pinging caused by post-emissions lean running carbs. On a stock engine one of the most common causes of pinging under mild accelleration was a faulty EGR valve. This was due to ellevated combustion temps. Many cars also failed new IM-240 dyno emissions testing for NOX (oxides of Nitrogen) because of faulty EGR systems (bad valve, clogged passages, etc.). If you rebuild an engine and it is carbed correctly there is no need for an EGR. I have yet to rebuild an engine yet on any car I have ever owned and not thrown out the EGR, including current Mustang. All you need is a new manifold without an EGR provision and an aftermarket carb that isn't leaned out to death like the factory post-emissions carbs.

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Old 09-24-2003, 06:53 PM
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Quote:


In turn, having "cooler" combustion is supposed to produce fewer nitrogen oxide emissions, and so the dog chases his tail. The "chemistry" behind it is when nitrogen and oxegen meet in the combustion chamber, higher temperatures cause a chemical bond resulting in the formation of nitrous oxides.

The bad part of the mess is the effect all of this has on timing, preignition, and advance.
I wish my engine produced nitrous oxides all by itself, it sure would run alot faster, but I believe you are confusing nitrous oxides, ( NOS go fast stuff), with "oxides of nitrogen". EGR valves help to reduce combustion chamber temps to reduce pinging AND reduce "oxides of nitrogen" emmissions, the one thing the cat cannot take care of. Removing the EGR valve will have NO affect on the idle quality as it does not come on until part throttle has been achieved.

As far as the EGR degrading performance, while its true that is does delute the combustion by a very very small amount, if its removed and the carb is richened up a tad in its "part throttle" position, it will not be a problem.

Personally, I'd leave the EGR manifold on the engine, but block it off. If, when you are done building the engine, and find it pinging all the time due to crap gas, or having the quinch distance not properly set, you could very easily put the EGR valve back on and fix the problem in just a few minutes.
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Old 09-24-2003, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jmark
As far as the EGR degrading performance, while its true that is does delute the combustion by a very very small amount, if its removed and the carb is richened up a tad in its "part throttle" position, it will not be a problem.
Very well put Jmark, I often like what you post. Owning quite a few early seventees Fords I got into the habit early on of tossing those ten ton steel 2 barrel manifolds and Motorcraft carbs for a lightweight alluminum dual-plane intake and a nice little 4 barrel carb. Considering most of these mid-seventees Ford engines were de-tuned to death the last thing I wanted was to lose any volume of combustable mixture . A nice manifold/carb upgrade was the simplest way to not only wake these dogs up but it looked nice too . I always as a habit recommend a manifold/carb swap on any of these post-emissions engines. Just me.

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