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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-01-2008 07:34 PM
4 Jaw Chuck Your break-in oil consumption is not unusual.

Even my brand new 2008 Dodge Van took 10 000 kms (6000 miles) before it stopped using oil, now its fine. It was using 1 litre per 1000kms (600 miles) and it is a 3.3 litre engine so your usage rate is right there when compared to it at 5.7 litres displacement.

I would recommend using a low viscosity oil for the remainder of the break-in as it seems to speed things along and cool better, I use 5W-20.

I would say relax and go with the flow, keep up with regular oil changes and monitor the progress. Your assembly lube coating likely did nothing but lightly carbon up the top ring for the first few minutes of running.

I also use 2 stroke mix oil for lubing the top end of the motors I build, it seems to stick better and not vanish after a few weeks of sitting on the stand.

Its a good trick.
09-01-2008 07:29 PM
68 Pickup
re: Assembly Lube on Cylinder walls

Brand: Summit
Product Line: Summit Piston Rings
Part Type: Piston Rings
Part Number: SUM-134-CM553240
Bore (in): 4.040 in.
Bore (mm): 102.616mm
Top Ring Included: Yes
Top Ring Thickness: 1/16 in.
Second Ring Included: Yes
Second Ring Thickness: 1/16 in.
Oil Ring Included: Yes
Oil Ring Thickness: 3/16 in.
Oil Ring Tension: Standard
File Fit: No
Gapless: No
Top Ring Material: Cast iron
Top Ring Facing Material: Plasma-moly
Second Ring Material: Cast iron
Second Ring Facing Material: Cast iron
Oil Ring Material: Stainless steel
Quantity: Sold as a set.

Piston Rings, Plasma-Moly, 4.040 in. Bore, 1/16 in., 1/16 in., 3/16 in. Thickness, 8-Cylinder, Set of 8


If you mean by cleaned if i got it clean enough i think i did, i used solvent to degrease it thoroughly and then used soap and water, i spent most of a day cleaning it and tapping holes. The cross hatch looked pretty good to me and even throughout all the cylinders,,,, if i could figure out how to put in a pic i would..probably wouldn't show much anyway, the pistons are installed. i would hope if the machine noticed a problem they would have told me,,,after all they do this daily,,,,maybe they just wanted my money??
09-01-2008 06:41 PM
machine shop tom IF the block was not plate honed, IF the cylinder surface was not correct, IF the block was not properly cleaned........


You get the rest.

Still, got a part # for the rings?

tom
09-01-2008 06:26 PM
68 Pickup
re: Assembly Lube on Cylinder walls

The rust was very minor surface rust and i cleaned it off ok so i really don't think it is an issue.

I doubt the block was plate honed, i took it to a reputable machine shop in my area and since i don't have this done much i just told them to hone it and hot tank it,,,i figured whatever they normally do is sufficient. Plus i'm somewhat on a budget, i just like working on engines this is not a daily driver nor a racer, more of a hobby i guess.
I really think i got the rings in right. I believe my main issue is blowby and alot if not most of the oil is going through the pcv valve and for some reason it is affecting the #6 and #8 cylinders more.

I really appreciate everyones help on this, i feel like maybe the assy lube may not be that much of an issue but anyway i think i have some ring seating issues. I plan to put several more thousand miles on it to see how it plays out and possibly try some "quick fixes" before i get bored enough again to pull it back out, in fact i may just build up another bottom end over the winter and try to do a little more precise job on it.

Again thanks a bunch to everyone for making this forum such a great resource.
09-01-2008 05:09 PM
machine shop tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by va4cqd
moly rings do take longer to seat then cast rings

Moly rings do NOT take longer to seat in a properly prepared cylinder.

Was the block torque-plate bored and honed? What grit stones were used? Were the bores plateau-honed? Were the rings installed correctly (second compression rings installed upside-down will cause what you describe)?

What is the brand and part # of the rings used? Perhaps they are low-tension rings.

tom
09-01-2008 04:08 PM
Argess Lubrication is lubrication...a little different stuff on assembly shouldn't hurt. Different stuff in the oil pan (i.e. synthetic) is a different story and can be a real problem. Assemblyt stuff all gets scraped off (by the rings) in no time anyway. I would be more worried about the rust you mentioned. Could have scored the cylinder walls a bit as it was scraped free by the rings. I would suggest driving it a bit more to see if things improve.
09-01-2008 07:47 AM
HAYWIRE Pick up a can of Restore works great or go to a GM dealer and grab their magic ring sealer in a can. The ford dealer here in town uses the GM stuff by the case in all their used cars....and it keeps you from pulling the engine.....by the way had much the same thing happen with a 327 I built years ago added 1 can ....still not burning oil today....Lorne
09-01-2008 07:45 AM
CNC BLOCKS NE There are a lot fo areas to look at as far using oil worn valve guides, valve seals, intake gaskets.

If your cylinders were plate honed and a good cylinder hone was used there should not be any problem with ring seal, We see up to .004 in distortion when the torque plate is bolted on.

We have seen engines on the dyno that guys did not have them plate honed and its unbelievable the differance in blowby at full load and wide open throttle. And these engines really seem to be down on torque and HP with that much blowby.

We build a lot of circle track engines and are breathere are always a dry and see othere engines with rags wraped around the breather from blowby issues and even at the end of the season there is still blowby issues which tell you the rings never seated and with .004 cylinder wall distortion how can they seal.

Stock engines are not as criticle but when your using performance cams that build more cylinder pressure, and smaller CC combustions chambers it magnafies the problem.

We use Clevite bearing gaurd on our cylinder walls with no issues so far and where we plate hone our cylinders with a good hone there is really not much break in for the rings.

Do a leak down test that sould tell you if you are have a ring seal probblem as we see around 1.5 to 2 % leak downs on our engines after a season of running if that helps.

And going to a .040 over bore there is more distortion compared to a smaller bore.


Here are some good links to look over.
http://www.chevytalk.org/threads/sho...page/0#1227305

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58964
09-01-2008 07:43 AM
68 Pickup
re: Assembly Lube on Cylinder walls

Heads were gone through, All the plugs look perfect, light brownish except for #8 and it had got quite a bit of build up, dry crusty, on one side of electrode and conductor, #6 look similar but doesn't build up as fast. These cylinders did the exact same thing before rebuild, and i used the same pistons. Previous rebuild had 20k-30k and it was bored to .040 then. Only had it machined honed this time. I know i am getting some oil through the pcv valve, just not sure how much, maybe due to blowby. Could this oil be channeling mainly to those rear 2 cylinders?
09-01-2008 07:26 AM
Stroke Well, you ought not have done that. How about this, how were/are the heads? Were they gone through too? What do your plugs look like?
09-01-2008 06:36 AM
dawg your gonna have to rehone the cylinders for sure.
also keep in mind you need to attain a crosshatch pattern.
Also just use non synthetic oil to coat the walls and for engine breakin.
walls are certainly glazed !
09-01-2008 05:21 AM
baddbob I used STP oil treatment on the cylinder walls of one engine I rebuilt 20 + years ago and the rings never broke in properly. Since then I use thin 2 stroke oil on the bores and haven't had any breakin problems.
09-01-2008 02:22 AM
techinspector1 I used GTX in a '94 Quest from the day I bought it new to the day I sold it with 195,000 miles on it. It never used a drop of oil. Changed the trans fluid every 20K miles and the original trans was still in it when I sold it. Shifted like the day I bought it.
09-01-2008 01:21 AM
va4cqd moly rings do take longer to seat then cast rings

i've used gtx for years and i never noticed any more oil comsumption with it than other oils
09-01-2008 01:14 AM
68 Pickup
re: Assembly Lube on Cylinder walls

Plasma-Moly, 4.040 in. Bore, 1/16 in., 1/16 in., 3/16 in. Thickness.
I have used castrol gtx since start up. My cheap valve covers have baffles and it seems that since the engine runs about 3000 rpm on highway that it when i'm using most oil but i don't know this for sure. I have heard people having oil problems with gtx.
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