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The Ospho Solution..(rust removal)

353K views 664 replies 61 participants last post by  Lizer 
#1 ·
This is the start of a thread dedicated to successful rust removal using ospho,a water based phosphric acid product I've been using professionally for many years.
Ospho has some advantages over other methods, mainly a DIY can do it at home inexpensively with little mess,fairly easily.
I'll try to answer any questions and offer some advice on the successful use of this product.
.....First,I'll start with the most common use : To remove surface rust That has accumulated on unprotected steel....Then heavly rusted and pitted metal,and using it to prevent surface rust of freshly stripped steel...
...
The pics below show the trunk floor and wheel wells I made for my old car.After making the pieces and screwing them together ,it got cold out and I put the car up for a couple months and the steel got pretty rusty.
In the interest of time I'll just do a spot to show how its done and what Materials you'll need.Bare with me I'm a newbie with the computer.
 

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#27 ·
GUYS...
please!!!
either send dbm a pm with your question for now or wait to ask till after the next final series is posted...

what has been presented is only a "introduction" paragraph worth of knowledge....
(how to acid scrub surface rust off a new piece of sheet steel in the first series)

the next series will be much more informative and more correctly done to judge from!!!

dbm has been submitting "first take" "raw" videos so I for one have been trying to help in the background to make the next one better....
(ex: it's my fault he didn't do the cut lift test correct at all on the second series test,,, my instructions weren't clear enough)

I have asked him to prepare a summary statement post,,,that should answer many/most of the common questions....

PS: "thank you" to whoever recently cleaned up the thread
 
#30 ·
Thanks again deadbodyman -- I've put together a wiki article on this topic. Here it is: Rust removal with Ospho.

Some notes:
--I'm not sure how or if to include your adhesion tests. However, I'm open to input on this issue; one option is to do a second article with adhesion tests, and link everything together.

--I've linked to the Phosphoric acid as metal pretreatment article within the Ospho article (that article now also includes a link to the Ospho article). There is also a "Criticism" section of the Ospho article that addresses the controversy at hand, and mentions the opposing viewpoint.

--Feel free to edit the article anytime: update, correct, fix, add pics and vids, etc. Anyone else should also feel free to do so. If you don't want to edit the Ospho-specific article, there is always the more general Phosphoric acid as metal pretreatment article. We also have a huge Rust article.

--Waiting on that heavy rust removal. I'm hoping you can save me some time and add it directly to the wiki.
 
#31 ·
deadbodyman-thanks for your insight on OSPHO :) . I have been using it for about 15 years and it is very good. Used it on Mustang and have not seen any problems.

Jon, thanks for the wiki

However......... what happened to the videos???? :confused: If I try Deadbodyman's links, there is a "error trying to access this". If I use Jon's wiki, I get something else.

Thanks
F
 
#32 · (Edited)
#33 ·
#35 ·
Ospho adheasion test#1

A few people say it will create adheasion problems but I've used this fot well over25 yrsand never had any such trouble....
It was sugested that I drop a blob of bondo on the epoxy primer as an adheasion test...also suggested was duct tape..I did both tests to both sides
of the hood
Half the hood was treated with Ospho the other was sanded with 80 and primed.
The results are clear...

http://www.streetfire.net/video/ospho-adheasion-tests-and-2_2052581.htm
 
#36 ·
still not satisfied the unbelievers suggested I scratch a grid of squares through the primer into the metal then stick the duct tape on them and pull it off ...I did this to both sides also....

If there are any other questions or tests anyone would like me to try just ask.I'll even make another video of it....

Heres the last test.....http://www.streetfire.net/video/adheasion-test-military-type_1994959.htm
 
#40 ·
Thats the whole purpose of the videos and instructions.....
to prove thats wrong......Period....At least as far as Ospho is concerned .
I'm no fan of miracle rust cures, I hate them...these are the tests offered by a couple of members that thought I was full of it ...The bondo test was from a Pro at the SPI form (also the epoxy I use) The duct tape with the scratch grid is (I'm told) a military adhesion test...
I also would love to try any adhesion test you or any one else can can offer up..because after using ospho for 25 yrs I know when there's an adhesion problem. Be clear,I'm not talking about any other product out there but Ospho and Ospho only.....

Ospho works and solves the problems most asked about, such as:
1) what can I do To stop surface rust after I get my car blasted or stripped ?

2) How can I get the surface rust off my stripped car and keep it from coming back ?

3) How can I get rid of heavy ,pitted rust without the mess and expense of blasting ?


How about I give you guys a bottle so you can try it yourselves ,apply it like I said and tell us all your results.....
 
#41 ·
I'm sure it works when proper procedures are followed, it's just that guys tend not to follow them, inadvertently make a mistake, or misunderstand the procedure. That's why for most newbies, the path with the least potential problems is best. Even for professionals, usually the fewer products used results in fewer chances to make a mistake or have some kind of reaction or incompatibility.

I'm not intending disrespect to your methods, only stating my opinion.
 
#43 ·
Ah, good to see the new SPI forum is up, and it looks sharp! I've updated the link to it on our Master List of Hotrodding Forums.

Also added a link to the "What every new painter must read" thread, in the Phosphoric acid as metal pretreatment wiki article.

And, updated the vids in the Rust removal with Ospho article.

BTW, anyone is welcome to start a "Why not to use Ospho" wiki article. There is criticism of Ospho in both articles, but it seems like a designated opposition article might be warranted.
 
#44 ·
crashtech said:
I'm sure it works when proper procedures are followed, it's just that guys tend not to follow them, inadvertently make a mistake, or misunderstand the procedure. That's why for most newbies, the path with the least potential problems is best. Even for professionals, usually the fewer products used results in fewer chances to make a mistake or have some kind of reaction or incompatibility.

I'm not intending disrespect to your methods, only stating my opinion.
I totally understand the point your making crash,and its with the newbie in mind I made the vids,to show how easy it really is....In all the years and all the primer and paint I've used I've never had a compatibility problem ,it works with everything ... If someone can mix 4;1;1 primer or 1;1 epoxy certainly they can pour something straight out of a bottle ,scrub it in and wipe it off ....Its as easy as using wax & grease remover but even that gets messed up by a few .....Thats why were here right? to help the hobbiest's with there car related problems........
Everyone knows you always sand before priming or painting don't they? They might get the grits wrong but everyone knows to sand for adhesion ...same here ....you always sand and scuff before priming. I think because it drys clear some people may skip the sanding part...but its important...
BTW ,I am a real life painter that makes his living with a gun ,have been for 35 yrs.I've painted everything from dump trucks to show cars ,used about every type and brand of paint and primer,so I'm not some Joe blow from down the street or some guy, bored sitting at his desk looking to stir something up ...I still get down and dirty with the old stuff too ,I dont do just the gravy work and I wont waffle back and forth depending on my mood that day.I mean what I say and I stick to it.and offer proof of what I say the rest is up to the readers.
I dont work for Skyco or own any stock in it ...I simply state the products I use ,why I use them ,Ospho just happens to be one of them ,its also the one I've used the longest .....I'm here if anyone wants to know something about it or has any trouble what so ever with it.
Sorry guys ,due to Canada's hazardous materials shipping laws its not available there,I just found out...
 
#45 ·
Let me say something here, first Mike (dead body man) and I are friends, we have had lunch together and went two hours and never talked about this subject, smart, as we were both packin. LOL

I like what Mike is doing here as far as trying to teach and he does a good job and that is what these forums should be for and used for.


Sort and sweet, there are probably 50 people on here that over the last few years i has told on the phone how to use Oshpo and one of my previous buried posts, I explained how i use it on small parts.

Here is a copy and paste of what I wrote that every painter should know:

*Never use a metal prep UNLESS you are fully aware of how to neutralize properly.

See what it says? My only disagreement with mike, I understand the tech says its a primer and is self neutralizing, sorry but bull.
Mike believes, the tech sheet, written for field equipment and that is a different type of paint and usage altogether.
Yes it will neutralize when it ages and you can see flash rust.

Anyways, I said my piece and won't interfere, I just hate problem phone calls and we make the same statement about soda blasting, don't use or make sure you know what and how to use it.

Mike, carry on and I will stay away.
 
#46 ·
BarryK said:
Let me say something here, first Mike (dead body man) and I are friends, we have had lunch together and went two hours and never talked about this subject, smart, as we were both packin. LOL
My only disagreement with mike, I understand the tech says its a primer and is self neutralizing, sorry but bull.
Mike believes, the tech sheet, written
All true...and If I call SPI to ask a stupid question we always end up talking for an hour or two... Barrys products and service are enough for me to be a devoted customer but he has the absolute best guy delivering the stuff to me...He'll even deliver a quart most time s I'll go meet Eddie because I dont want him to lose time on my petty little things I run out of....I dont deal with anyone else unless I have too...

That said , I never read a teck sheet until I joined HR,I just used it like I was taught ...It does claim to be a paintable surface BUT ALWAYS USE AN EPOXY PRIMER.
The self neutralizing IS true though...I never did anything but sand or scuff after it dried...
BTW ,by now we should know we may never agree on this subject but at least we can agree to disagree and still be civil about it....Were to much alike and hard headed to ever change each others opinions ..One thing with us is we dont sugar coat anything we say exactly whats on our mind ..We could talk about politics all day and not get into an argument but when it comes to this stuff ....Forget about it....I aint bringin it up ...except here ...where I'm safe...
I was sure glad to see you didnt have anyone with you that day.... :sweat: :sweat: :sweat:
Seriously Bear ...If you saw how I use it ,I think you would change your mind... I'll bet you get a lot of calls about wax & grease remover problems too..Am I right????
We forget :Everythings easy when you've done it all your life...Things we dont even think about give others fits....I run into this every day...
 
#47 ·
Just a note of interest:

I just read a report from Robert McCartney out of Maryland who personally has experienced adhesion problems using House of Color epoxy over Oshpo. He's one of the most trusted pros who is a member of the Tri-Five anc ChevyTalk forums (MP&C).
http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?p=463894#post463894

Also, from House of Color's tech sheet:

NOTE: PLEASE REFER TO SANDING GRIT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR BARE METAL AND OLD FINISH SANDING.
NOTE: DO NOT USE ANY ACID BASE PRODUCTS SUCH AS SELF ETCHING PRIMER, ETC. UNDER THE KP2CF PRIMER. THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE AN ADHESION PROBLEM.
NOTE: IF YOU FIND IT NECESSARY TO USE A METAL CONDITIONER TO REMOVE RUST, ETC., BE SURE TO THOROUGHLY CLEAN AND NEUTRALIZE THE TREATED AREA FOLLOWING THE CONDITIONER MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATIONS, USING OUR KC20 POST SANDING CLEANER WITH A MAROON SCUFF PAD TO INSURE ALL ACID RESIDUE HAS BEEN REMOVED BEFORE PRIMING. IF NOT, THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE AN ADHESION PROBLEM.
 
#48 ·
Roger,
Skip foose is also famous and I see him screwing up a lot.....
I've seen two guys on tv suggest putting tranny fluid on your car to protect the bare metal also...
My point is follow my instrutions on its application... it works under any primer I dont care whos name is on it ....If someone had a problem ,they did something wrong ...Pros screw up on a daily basis just ask one if they ever forgot to add hardner to primer or paint and we use mix the stuff every day..
After all if you want to know how something works wouldnt you want to ask someone that uses it without any problems.
If you wanted to build a guided missle who you going to ask ? Hamas or the americans..
For 15.00 its a cheap way to find out for yourself, try it my way and let us know right here....
 
#49 · (Edited)
deadbodyman said:
Roger,Skip foose is also famous and I see him screwing up a lot.....I've seen two guys on tv suggest putting tranny fluid on your car to protect the bare metal also...My point is follow my instrutions on its application... it works under any primer I dont care whos name is on it ....If someone had a problem ,they did something wrong ...Pros screw up on a daily basis just ask one if they ever forgot to add hardner to primer or paint and we use mix the stuff every day..After all if you want to know how something works wouldnt you want to ask someone that uses it without any problems. If you wanted to build a guided missle who you going to ask ? Hamas or the americans..For 15.00 its a cheap way to find out for yourself, try it my way and let us know right here....
I posted that just as a note and you attacked it by saying he screwed up and I can't defend it since I am not him. However, I don't believe he would have said that if he had not used the product as directed. But, I believe what you say too. However, I don't understand why you are not having problems. But, I do believe you. And, I believe if you believe it, you should do what you think is right. That said, I still wouldn't recommend to my friends for them to take their car to your shop.

No, I'm not going to try it. It's a fact that epoxy doesn't cure the way it's designed to in the presence of an acid residue (and I believe Ospho leaves an acid residue if not completely removed). I have absolutely no incentive to try it anyway. Epoxy over properly prepared metal provides the best corrosion and moisture barrier that there is. Why would I want to do anything different than that? This works for a zillion people out there. Just because one professional out there goes against manufacturer's recommendations, has never had a problem and swears by it just doesn't do it for me. There's lots of pros on this site and you're the only one I know of who uses Ospho in the manner that you use it.

You have found something that works for you. That's great. And, you've shared that here. Fine again. But it's another thing to keep pushing your position over and over again here to strongly influence others to use a practice that is not a recommended or generally accepted one. Especially since this site gets a lot of novice people that just stop by occasionally for advice and may leave thinking that your way is the accepted way. I think that is wrong.
 
#50 ·
The HOK tech sheet statement is documented in the Phosphoric acid as metal pretreatment article. There is a quote from shine in there as well, that I think properly summarizes the Ospho opposition viewpoint. As usual, anyone is welcome to update/adjust the article.
----


deadbodyman -- while I agree that "famous" often holds little weight around here, tech sheets most certainly do.

I think that roger1's last paragraph above is a fair, reasonable, and accurate statement. The red carpet has been rolled out for you to document a controversial practice whose use runs against the recommendations of the bulk of the professionals on this forum (among whose ranks I will happily include you as well).

There are multiple threads on this topic, with multiple consecutive posts by you. There is a wiki article I made for you, that shows up on the first page in Google when searching for "Ospho". There are photos. There are videos. Your perspective on the use of Ospho will be received by many people, for years to come. I think it's a great example of how we give equal voice to opposing viewpoints.

Nevertheless, while I think it's important to give a voice to controversial viewpoints, I don't think it's acceptable to give that voice a loudspeaker and a podium. Your position is being pushed too aggressively, and in a manner that does not adequately share the stage with the opposing viewpoint. Please reconsider your communication strategy.
 
#589 ·
The MSDS for Ospho does not mention any dichromate compounds, but their literature does, so it's not clear to me if it actually contains dichromate. But for the curious, here is a link to the sodium dichromate wiki page, as well as a link to the hexavalent chromium page (sodium dichromate is a member of the hexavalent chrome family). It's sobering reading.
I was also concerned about the mention of sodium dichromate in Ospho's marketing literature and absence on the MSDS. So I contacted the maker of Ospho: Skybryte Company. Here is their reply:

"Dear Mr. Prince.

The sodium dichromate is present at below 0.10% (one tenth of one percent) which OSHA does not feel is a significant quantity to represent any sort of health hazard and should NOT be listed on the MSDS.

Please let me know if you need additional info.


Stephen L. Pitcher
Technical Director "

I hope someone finds this information I have gathered useful.
-Adam Prince
Crisp Line Metal
 
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