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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-06-2011 05:57 PM
Lizer The stuff I use (PPC Phix corrosion treatment) comes in a spray bottle and I degrease the surface first and then spray it down. Let sit for 5-15 min (longer if there's more rust) keeping it wet. Then I take a red scotchbrite and scrub the surface and wipe it down with a damp cloth. Do this once more if a lot of rust and corrosion remains. When it's at a point I'm satisfied with, or if I just want to spray it on a panel to protect it, you then spray a light mist over the entire panel, let sit for a minute, then wipe down with a damp cloth. This final step is what leaves the zinc coating on the panel.

I'd then put SPI Epoxy on the panel. To prep the panel I'll scuff the zinc'd surface with a red scotch brite then degrease.
03-05-2011 03:34 PM
deadbodyman From what I understand about navel jelly they are close relatives but ospho is a lot more concentrated.I apply it with a pump spray bottle and right away it starts dissolving rust you can see it happening...
For light rust I apply it with the pump bottle and scrub it in with a scuff pad,for heavier and pitted rust I'll use wire wheels to work it into the pits.keeping everything wet as I'm working ,then just wipe off the excess with dry paper shop towels (lots of them) let it dry over night and if its in the shop you wont see surface rust again for months. the coating is a primer and paintable if your doing a trailer or something but I always sand it and epoxy prime it on my cars..I've never come across any primer that didnt stick well to it. Although others have I blame it on poor prep,it doesnt look like anything is on there.after sanding and scuffing wipe it down with wax & grease remover and start shooting your primer....The important thing about it is that even on media blasted cars it'll prevent surface rust on bare metal until your ready to prime and if it already has started to get surface rust it'll remove it quickly...I can apply a coat in less than an hour as a protectent .but it might take days if the car is heavily pitted...applying a second coat after the first has dried ,cleans it up even better...

How do you use the zinc phosphate????
03-05-2011 09:47 AM
Lizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
lizer,your zink phosphate sounds promising I'll pick some up and try it and compare it to Ospho but you have a few misconceptions about "ospho" ..Yes it's active ingrediant IS phosphric acid but it does not need to be neautralized just like an etching primers main ingrediant is Phosphric acid ,you dont neautralize that ...it does offer protection against surface rust....and although SPI does noy recomend using ANY treatments thier epoxy primer works very well with it ...I know first hand because I've been using ospho for for around 25 yrs and SPI has been my primer of choice for quite a few years also..At my shop,if I strip it or its blasted its gets the combo,
This is the first I've heard of the zinc so I'll try it on something and do a couple tests but the reason I still use ospho is because it works SO well and when something works well you stick with it...untill something comes along thats better...This zinc may be it ....we'll see
Is Ospho the same stuff as naval jelly or is there something more special about it? I have naval jelly I use too but this is in contrast to everything I've ever read about it, namely offering protection against surface rust. Even the label on my naval jelly states that I need to cover bare surfaces immediately or rusting will occur. Zinc is an ingredient alongside phosphoric acid in etching primers too The phosphoric acid etches the surface of the metal on a molecular level, which forces the zinc into the metal. This is essentially what confers any hint of corrosive protection the primer may have.

I'm a research scientist by day and through my job have access to the thousands of scientific journals available. When I choose my metal preps I study the chemical interactions that take place, and the peer-reviewed scientific literature has a plethora on this. There's a good abstract on zinc here and it's a short paragraph:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7&searchtype=a

I know it's a little nerdy than what most people might care for, but a scientist and an old body guy could be a slam dunk dangerous combination!

With all that being said, I don't want to talk zinc phosphate up like it's a miracle product, because it's not. I'm often hasty in applying it if I just want to keep the panel as bare metal for awhile, and flash rust WILL come back if I don't do it well. If I do a poor job sometimes the panel will flash before my eyes at the end when I'm wiping the excess off with a damp rag.

I originally learned about it from an oooold body guy who professionally restores Mustangs (the first time I ever met him, he rolled out from underneath a Mustang he was prepping at the ripe age of 77)
03-05-2011 04:24 AM
deadbodyman lizer,your zink phosphate sounds promising I'll pick some up and try it and compare it to Ospho but you have a few misconceptions about "ospho" ..Yes it's active ingrediant IS phosphric acid but it does not need to be neautralized just like an etching primers main ingrediant is Phosphric acid ,you dont neautralize that ...it does offer protection against surface rust....and although SPI does noy recomend using ANY treatments thier epoxy primer works very well with it ...I know first hand because I've been using ospho for for around 25 yrs and SPI has been my primer of choice for quite a few years also..At my shop,if I strip it or its blasted its gets the combo,
This is the first I've heard of the zinc so I'll try it on something and do a couple tests but the reason I still use ospho is because it works SO well and when something works well you stick with it...untill something comes along thats better...This zinc may be it ....we'll see
03-05-2011 12:01 AM
Lizer I've never understood why more people don't use zinc phosphate when it has numerous benefits over phosphoric acid.

For one, it removes rust better than acid treatments, it doesn't have to be neutralized, it leaves a nice gray zinc coating on bare metal surfaces giving protection against corrosion AFTER application (phosphoric acid gives no protection after application), application is far less messy (it's sprayed on),and is compatible with virtually all paint systems (phosphoric acid is not, ie SPI does not recommend their Epoxy over acid-treated surfaces).

I treat all my panels with zinc phosphate once I've got them to bare metal to protect against flash rust as well as remove any corrosion I couldn't remove mechanically. It also leaves the panel looking brand new.

There may be some other products out there, but I use a particular one, made right here in good ol Iowa called Phix by a company called PPC

http://ppcbest.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=43
03-04-2011 06:05 AM
redsdad
Quote:
Originally Posted by techron
the best thing i have found to de-rust small parts is muriatic acid,..
I hope you meant to say phosphoric acid. Muriatic is hydrochloric acid. Using HCl on carbon steel can result in hydrogen embrittlement which will lead to cracking of the part under stress. Too risky IMHO.
03-04-2011 05:45 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantiGreenPro
Anytime I'm blasting cars I use Holdtight 102
I was just reading your link with interest.
Have you tried wet blasting a car ???? sounds interesting...
hold tight dont seem to protect bare metal very long ,when I strip a car and scrub in Ospho the metal is protected for months in the shop and weeks outside...its mostly phosphoric acid so its NOT eco friendly (I dont think)....(it's in soft drinks)
ospho is not really a spray on and walk away product unless you just want to slow the rust down on something sitting out back ,then you put it in a pump spray bottle and spray the rust spots ,eventually the rain will will wash it off and it'll have to be redone every month or two (depending on how much it rains) But it will keep a rusty car from getting worse ...
03-02-2011 04:10 PM
AtlantiGreenPro
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
You from Joysey????? What exit?????

That sounds like a phosphric acid solution what kind of primer do you use over it???
I use all kinds of primers over Holdtight all depends on what the finish is.

Lots of great test info from paint manufactures here on Holdtight 102: http://www.holdtight.com/coating-test-data/
02-08-2011 08:23 AM
ron82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks
i like por15. Did a trunk in a car over 6 years ago and it's still holding up great
In all fairness having done this a few times i would suggest that you remove any and all rust before primering your car for paint if you want a quality paint job and one that will last. One said there is no paint that will go over rust, well any paint will but it will not stop it and the rust will come thru and bubble up fill with water and then problem worse. Im sure that is what he meant. remove the rust and use a GOOD cleaner and degreaser on the bare metal before primering it. My brother in law took his 71 Cuda to a guy that was supposed to do all this and came to me less then two years later, he charged him $7.000 plus to do the work that he never did. now the cars in a shameful state. The por-15 for under carriage is excellent and lasting. Just trying to save you some $ and misery that you'll have if you do not prep the car correctly now. Just a suggestion...Ron
02-08-2011 12:03 AM
200horse try anti rust by tntrustremover.com its a waterbase enviormantally product that keeps rust from returning. I spayed my car and so far no rust has returned. They say before you paint it you wash it down with hot soapy damp cloth or sponge

good luck
02-04-2011 09:09 PM
mitmaks i like por15. Did a trunk in a car over 6 years ago and it's still holding up great
02-04-2011 06:35 PM
deadbodyman Rust In california ?????? Well I guess theres rust And then theres "RUST" we'z gots "RUST" over here.


That black epoxy primer dont look so bad when it rains out...
02-03-2011 07:50 PM
65GTO455
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
ospho...thats what I use my rusty restos
Ospho... also my preferred method. Available at virtually any hardware store. I used this stuff to take my whole car down to bare metal. So far, for the past year the car has remained rust free as I continue body work to get ready for primer. Let it dry, sand it off, wipe down with alcohol and then prime.

I have used gells that claim to do the same as naval jelly, but the rust just keeps coming back. Its like that chap stick that keeps making your lips more chap.
02-02-2011 05:42 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantiGreenPro
Anytime I'm blasting cars I use Holdtight 102

You can do a Google search for it on the web.

We do surface restoration in New Jersey with a Farrow System 185 and I add the concentrated holdtight 102 at 150 to 1 into my water tanks.

This way right after I'm done blasting I rinse down the surfaces with water and the exposed unpainted metal is good for up to 5 days with out any flash oxidation.

Of course you want to primer metal as soon as it's dries, but it's good knowing you have a window of time to do things right.
You from Joysey????? What exit?????

That sounds like a phosphric acid solution what kind of primer do you use over it???
02-02-2011 01:38 PM
Jon These wiki articles may be helpful to you:

Rust
Epoxy primer
Media blasting
Rust encapsulators
Phosphoric acid as metal pretreatment
Rust removal with Ospho
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