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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-09-2012 02:16 PM
cobalt327 [QUOTE=Ratoflic]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I'm waiting to hear what head the OP's dealing with and what the goal of it all is. If this was some one-off, "uncommon task/head" I don't know why Dr J's would even be mentioned, in that they seem to be Chevy-centric, w/a little Ford and late Hemi thrown in for good measure. Judging by the OP's user title (Big cubic inches small Chevy!) and profile signature (Chevy man forever!), chances are fair to good that is a SBC deal of some sort.

Hi Cobalt 327,

That's for a SBC (406 CI)......... My friend have a set of Dart pro one 215cc cylinder head. We only want to know if it's prefered to put a big porting in those cylinder head...of if it's doesn't worth the money to put $$$$ in those head and buy a set of good cylinder head. We want to squize around 750 hp from this 406ci at 14.5 CR.

Me personnaly, I would go with BMF Cylinder head (18*) anyway, he need to buy piston......but if he can keep the 23* setup...and make big HP....I think we will go with it....

Stephane
Yeah, if you can persuade him to step up to a better head to start with, I think he'll be money and HP ahead at the end of the game. Or throw a bottle on it and let 'er rip!

He can get decent $$$ for the heads he has, put that towards the Brodix heads and the hit wouldn't be as bad.
01-09-2012 02:14 PM
chucksrt Lorenzo's Hi flow performance in humeville Pa. He is really big in boat racing engine builds.
01-09-2012 12:51 PM
lmsport A Pro 1 wont go to 750hp without n2o or boost.
Call Brodix and get the head they recommend.
01-09-2012 09:45 AM
Ratoflic [QUOTE=cobalt327]I'm waiting to hear what head the OP's dealing with and what the goal of it all is. If this was some one-off, "uncommon task/head" I don't know why Dr J's would even be mentioned, in that they seem to be Chevy-centric, w/a little Ford and late Hemi thrown in for good measure. Judging by the OP's user title (Big cubic inches small Chevy!) and profile signature (Chevy man forever!), chances are fair to good that is a SBC deal of some sort.

Hi Cobalt 327,

That's for a SBC (406 CI)......... My friend have a set of Dart pro one 215cc cylinder head. We only want to know if it's prefered to put a big porting in those cylinder head...of if it's doesn't worth the money to put $$$$ in those head and buy a set of good cylinder head. We want to squize around 750 hp from this 406ci at 14.5 CR.

Me personnaly, I would go with BMF Cylinder head (18*) anyway, he need to buy piston......but if he can keep the 23* setup...and make big HP....I think we will go with it....

Stephane
01-06-2012 06:27 PM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelster
^^^all top notch guys.

Also Eric Bradby, Chad Spiers.

Darren Morgan would be my go-to guy if I were building a large cube big-block. He is a wizard at 500 cube pro-stock engines. For a sbc I would go with Larry Meaux or Chad or Eric. Don't forget some good shops that have specialty cnc programs available for whatever head you have. You'll save a lot of money going that route. Try advancedinduction.com and see what cnc programs they have available.
I know most of those guys have a long line at their front door. Even with cash it'll take time for a custom job. They offer great cnc'd heads too though.
01-06-2012 06:11 PM
joelster
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar
There's plenty of real good guys out there. Depends on how deep your pockets are.

Al Neal, Darren Morgan, Larry Meaux, Carl Foltz

http://www.cferacing.com/
^^^all top notch guys.

Also Eric Bradby, Chad Spiers.

Darren Morgan would be my go-to guy if I were building a large cube big-block. He is a wizard at 500 cube pro-stock engines. For a sbc I would go with Larry Meaux or Chad or Eric. Don't forget some good shops that have specialty cnc programs available for whatever head you have. You'll save a lot of money going that route. Try advancedinduction.com and see what cnc programs they have available.
01-06-2012 05:18 PM
cobalt327 I'm waiting to hear what head the OP's dealing with and what the goal of it all is. If this was some one-off, "uncommon task/head" I don't know why Dr J's would even be mentioned, in that they seem to be Chevy-centric, w/a little Ford and late Hemi thrown in for good measure. Judging by the OP's user title (Big cubic inches small Chevy!) and profile signature (Chevy man forever!), chances are fair to good that is a SBC deal of some sort.

Unless this is some sort of racing class that has limitations on what heads and intake can be used, or it's pro racing (to make money), or there are sponsers or money is no object, starting out by selecting the best head for the application from any good manufacturer will put you ahead of the game. The same money spent on better heads instead of porting stock or lesser aftermarket heads will be far more cost effective and will get to within a few percent of what a high dollar port job will get from a lesser head- and some heads will never measure up to an as-delivered aftermarket head regardless of how much time and money is lavished on it. And considering that even $2000 for porting/head work is dirt cheap (little more than a good valve job in some cases), it's easy to see how starting out w/a better head will be a better value- if money matters, that is.
01-06-2012 04:07 PM
BOBCRMAN@aol.com One of the very best Steve Sanchez. Total Flow. Rochester, Mi.
01-06-2012 02:01 PM
engineczar There's plenty of real good guys out there. Depends on how deep your pockets are.

Al Neal, Darren Morgan, Larry Meaux, Carl Foltz

http://www.cferacing.com/
01-06-2012 01:44 PM
lmsport Rons Porting Service
01-06-2012 01:17 PM
ap72 I tok it to the Ford shop INSTEAD of Mondello. There was no reason to send it to mondello. As for the cost, your first paragraph proved the point, if its a common task on a common head then take it to someone who can spread the costs out. If its an uncommon task or uncommon head then any good specialist will see it the same. There are several out there who DON'T do a large volume- where they make their profit comes from only a few heads a week, those shops can be the best and the most expensive (sometimes they're bad and cheap though).

As for porting by eye, you won't get the best results but proper care and understanding can get you good results.
01-06-2012 12:18 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
You're talking about taking advantage of volume pricing. Which is why shome shops specialize in certain heads, they can distribute the r&d costs among more customers and get each a better deal. However if its a one off application that advantage goes away. My olds heads were checked by a shop that specializes in fords, that doesn't mean he would have been any worse than if I sent them to mondello. It does mean it may take him a little longer. Since I ported them already on my own he just touched them up and the extra cost of shipping would have been greater.
What I stated above holds true regardless. If you want to take a head to a shop with no prior experience working that particular head- and pay for the learning curve, R&D, the endless hours of trial and error, the many castings that will be required to get to a point where there is an actual reproducible across the board improvement- then that's fine w/me. Bring a big fat wallet and plan to be there for a long time.

There is just no valid reason to not take advantage of prior experience! I build a lot of carbs. Q-jets and Holleys in particular. If someone handed me a Dellorto, I could- eventually- come up w/a few things I'm sure would help it. After all, it's a carb, right? Has the same circuits, uses the same physics, etc. Given a couple dozen I would be better. After a hundred I might even be called something of an expert. Maybe. But would it compare to a Ducati specialist who's been using and reworking those carbs for years? I seriously doubt it, not in the performance, price or time required- unless those last two criteria were unlimited.

OT- Anyone who home ports a head- by eye- w/no way of putting numbers to what is REALLY occurring is only fooling themselves. Good looks does not a good flowing port make. If you are going to pay to have a head ported, do all concerned a favor and supply them a good, unmolested casting and pay to have them do the work hopefully right the first time, instead of paying them to undo what has been done "because it looks right".

Taking an Olds head- first to a Ford expert, THEN follow that up w/a trip to Mondello- illustrates my point exactly. By your theory, the head should have been just as good coming back from the Ford shop as it will be coming back from Mondello. But obviously it didn't work out that way for you. So why recommend someone else do as you did and take that same chance of doubling the time and expense?

It just seems such a no brainer to take a head to an expert on that head instead of a generic shop or a specialist on another head.
01-06-2012 10:48 AM
boatbob2
porting heads..........

Hi,if you are building an engine for racing or all out HP,then port the heads,otherwise just match the heads and intake to the gaskets.and clean up any obvious rough places inside the ports.
01-06-2012 06:56 AM
ap72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I agree- the shop won't care- but I sure would!

Fluid dynamics and 'book learning' would lead one to believe there are many similarities in port flow dynamics regardless of the head design and application, and as far as that goes, it's true. But there are distinct advantages in choosing a company who's expertise is modifying the same head that you're working with.

The techniques/tricks of the trade and experience needed to do good work on any particular head doesn't come easily. Hundreds of hours can be tied up in a CNC program for just one port. A good shop might be expert in several makes/types of heads, but be sure of this before you contract to have your head done by any shop. It is a very specialized field, unless you're just talking about a routine valve job or rebuild.

I would recommend doing research to find out who is running good and winning using the head/engine you are working with. From there, find out who is doing the head work. Talk to guys who are racing in the class you're interested in, or who are building the engines for that class, etc. I'll be willing to bet that there'll be a few names you'll hear repeatedly.
You're talking about taking advantage of volume pricing. Which is why shome shops specialize in certain heads, they can distribute the r&d costs among more customers and get each a better deal. However if its a one off application that advantage goes away. My olds heads were checked by a shop that specializes in fords, that doesn't mean he would have been any worse than if I sent them to mondello. It does mean it may take him a little longer. Since I ported them already on my own he just touched them up and the extra cost of shipping would have been greater.
01-06-2012 06:33 AM
67-4-fun Here is a shop for you to check out if you want www.portandpolishing.com custom performace and machinery, his name is Bryan Feilds, he is an cycinder head expert, former team menards IRL member worked in there engine develoment program, his prices are competitive with other good shops. he is known for his cylinder head work.. Real nice guy, does excellent work!! Go to his web site or call 765-537-9900. Even if you live out of state ship them to him, he will fix you up and he is onest, tell him Jon Perkins with Toby cheeseman racing sent you..
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