Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board - Reply to Topic
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine> idle issue with a new engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Thread: idle issue with a new engine Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-01-2012 08:41 PM
gonzo08383 carb is tuned now. 78 pri/80 sec. never changed the air bleeds. 38*total timing, 26* @ idle. problem was electrical. there was a short between the steering wheel and the gas pedal(points to self). thank you bird for the info, starting over put me in a spot where i was forced to tell myself that what i already know isnt always fact. at one point in time when i first installed the carb the sec throttle blades were open. they somehow closed. i guess the allen screw backed itself out somewhere along the line. i also noticed the screws holding the baseplate to the main body were loose. a quick reset and no more burning eyes @idle. see, never a bad idea to doublecheck things. thanks all for the input. cheers.
04-30-2012 09:04 PM
gonzo08383 bird, you mention the pcv sys. the valve works fine, hose from manifold vac to valve to valve cover, standard setup. the other valve cover has two breathers. sound about right? the carb base is manifold vacuum so it shouldnt matter so long as its manifold vacuum sourced right? the cap and rotor are fine. accel super coil, cd ignition box, and the .060 gap is what was told to me by a tech line at msd cuz until i re-gapped the plugs i was burning them up and detonating, an extra .030" shouldnt make that much difference with a 60,000 volt coil right? oh and i converted to a secondary metering block so the carb has a quick fuel baseplate, a quickfuel primary and secondary metering blocks, pform 750 body, holley 4160 style side hung fuel bowls. i'm curious if the combination of parts allows four corner idle? if i back out the secondary blocks "idle" screws it runs worse. i always left them closed, dyno mechanic siad the last setup was pretty dead on. i think i'm at the point where i should leave it be for awhile cuz now i'm thinking of all kinds of ideas instead of keeping it simple. think ima save up for a wideband. vac gauge and timing light only help so much
04-30-2012 08:52 PM
gonzo08383 guess i should have mentioned the throttle plate and the metering blocks are both billet quickfuel parts. afr on my other 350 with this same carb was 12.8 on the dyno. that engine made 309ft/lbs and 240 horse with the jets that are still in there. i realize two different engines are two completely different monsters but the last engine was milder than this one. i figured the carb tuning couldnt be tto far off. i actually expected this deal to be on the lean side. think i should mess with the tiny jets in the metering block? the block came with some extra jets i think for the well.
04-30-2012 07:47 PM
F-BIRD'88 The proform HP center body is intended to upgrade a 750 carb.

It will work on a 650-700-750 or 800 carb.
All these use a 1-11/16" throttle bore size.

But will not work on a 600cfm carb because the 600 has a smaller throttle plate bore size. The metering blocks from a 600 will be way off the mark.

Drilling the throttle blades is not required.

You need to actually start measuring stuff. Get the old carb body that the metering blocks came from and look at the 4 air bleeds size.
ya it matters

Start by correcting the jetting.
Should be 72 to 74 pri and 80 to 85 sec for that carb body.
Use a 3.5 or 4.5 power valve.
Air bleeds for that carb should be:

This is for 4 corner idle:

pri idle 75 pri hi speed 35
sec idle 75 sec hi speed 35

For a 2 corner idle carb reduce the sec idle air bleeds to
35.

This is the default tune up from the upgrade kit.

You have to fine tune it from there.

Because your metering blocks did not come from a 750 carb
you need to start your tune up using the same pri and sec idle air bleeds size that is in the origional donor carb that the metering block came from. This is your starting point.
You tune it as required from that point.
A AFR meter is a huge help.

If 28deg timing at idle creates too much idle speed reduce it to 24.
You normaly do not need a extra air leak other than the small air leak created by the functional PCV system.
You do not need to drill the throttle plates.

Just hook up the pCV and use it.



Or get the metering block(s) from a 750.
This is the carb you are supposed to use for this upgrade.

Trying to do the upgrade on a 600 carb is a unknown factor.
The throttle base from a 600 carb is too small for the proform 750 center body. The 600 carb metering blocvks are calibrated different.
This may not be the only factor causing the over rich idle but it is a big can of worms for sure . Look at the ignition system too. Your rotor or cap may already be burned up from the excessive spark plug gap.

Is this a GM HEI distributor with the coil on top?
04-30-2012 06:53 PM
gonzo08383 mmmkay if i advance the timing anymore it idles way too high with the fast idle screw backed all the way out. timing is about 28*adv right now. air bleeds are whatever came in the carb body, its a proform 750 upgrade. the old carb was a holley 600cfm straight leg booster vac sec 300 dollar from azone. i'm not privy to drilling throttle blades when air bleeds are meant to be changed. just dont know how to size em. throttle response is great and i can roast the tires at a dead stop just fine. i gave it a "vacuum leak" and it leaned out a lil. sound like air bleeds to y'all?
04-26-2012 07:16 PM
454C10 need a 10" 3000 stall converter, better heads, a bigger cam, and lots of initial ignition timing.
04-26-2012 01:56 PM
Localboy808 Sorry. I have no idea how my new post ended up here! Can a mod please move this? Or just delete it? I can't even edit it!
04-26-2012 12:25 PM
Localboy808
Advice on my unknown 350

Hey guys. So I bought this 65 Nova. It's got a 350, TH350 with a shift kit, rear end is a 10 bolt Posi with 3.73 gears.

This is what I know just from a visual. The engine is running an Edlebrock RPM airgap, Edlebrock 600 carb, I installed an Accel HEI distributor, it's got Headman shorty headers into 2 1/12" exaust and 40 series Flowmasters. No x pipe. The heads are 882s.

Engine runs well. Sounds like it has a bit of a cam in it. Although its a bit of a dog off the line at WOT. But when it it's about 2500 3000rpm it pulls hard and chirps 2nd gear pretty hard. I'm trying to Discribe it the best I can because I would like some thoughts as to what I might have inside this engine. Maybe it's impossible to tell at all without tearing it down. The previous owner was a young guy just out of the military. He bought it off his buddy who just shipped out to Afghanistan. He had to sell it because of a nasty divorce/custody. But he didn't know all the details of the build. I asked him to try and find out but he never got back to me.

The car was set up for the track. Heidts subframe, gutted with a single racing seat, Fuel cell in the trunk. Batt in the trunk. All new fuel lines and steel braided stuff. They dumped some money into this car. Oh to be young!

Anyway I'm trying to figure out how I can improve my bottom end without totally taking it apart. Maybe it needs a stall? Wondering if the heads were worked? Any way to tell without taking them off? I'd like to get the Edlebrock RPM cam to match the intake. But if the heads are not worked they will need to be.

How would you guys go about this? Just start taking it apart? Or are there things I could look for to give me hints on what I'll need to do? And how do you think this setup will run with the intake and cam with the 882 heads? I have an extra set of those heads in my garage. And a very good shop in my area who's has been there for 50 years quoted me 335.00 to work them for the RPM cam. That's a rebuild with a 3 angle grind. Stock valves. If I did that should I go with 2.02s? Of would I not see the benifit with this setup? I'm on a budget and am trying to use as much of the stuff I have already. Much of it looks newer. Any advice will be welcome.
04-26-2012 06:00 AM
454C10 not enough timing at idle.

after turning up the timing, turn down idle speed (which closes the throttle blades) and readjust the air mixture screws for best idle.

Its running to rich at idle because the throttle blades are open past the idle transfer slots at idle.

if more timing doesn't do it then you will need to let more air into the engine somewhere else. May need to crank open the secondaries or drill a small hole (0.08") in the front throttle blades
04-26-2012 01:10 AM
F-BIRD'88 .060" is way too much spark plug gap.
reguardless of what the box says. Reset at .035"

All a wide spark plug gap does is put stress on the cap and rotor and
promote arcing and missfire and ensures a short cap rotor life.

.035" is just right. more is not better.

The primary jetting is way too fat. reduce to 70-74 jet.
Then increase the sec jet to 84 ( no power valve on sec side)

what is the base idle spark timing. must be 20 to 26deg base.
Fix the distributor timing curve.

What is the diameter of the pri and sec idle air bleeds on the carb.?

What is the size of the idle air bleeds on the origional donor carb body?

Remove the carb and flip it over and reset BOTH the pri and sec throttles opening at idle so .020 to .030" of the edge of the idle transfer slot is showing under the throttle blades.

The PCV must be hooked up to the base of the carb and functional.
The PCV is part of the idle circuit. Eliminating the PCV screws up the idle circuit calibration. ( makes it richer)

Make these changes including correcting the timing curve and idle base timing. These cams need 24++ deg at idle. A stock curve will not work.

.060" spark gap will not work.
04-25-2012 06:10 PM
gonzo08383 ok i was wrong. not the power valve. eyes still burning. and the jets are 78 front/80 in the back. car idles fine at 1100 rpm's once its warmed up a lil. still waaaaaay too rich @ idle. plugs are fine and gapped correctly. cd ignition box says to gap em at 60. still digging for the problem....
04-25-2012 04:54 AM
454C10 you are going to need more fuel pump than an autozone mr.gasket pump.

rotor vane pumps suck also. expensive, loud, and the motor brushes wear out quickly.

I recommend using a msd 2200 efi pump with a return style fuel pressure regulator for a carb (low pressure). This pump is cheap, brushless, quiet, and very durable. The pump cost $100 and the fuel pressure regulator around $100.

Mount the pump by the tank as low as possible and install the regulator in the front (ideal) or the back (if easier). But the regulator requires a line back to the tank (at least 5/16" diameter).

Yes, I know it is an efi pump, but it works great on a carb engine if you use the right regulator and return line.
04-24-2012 08:46 PM
gonzo08383 dawg-i think i'd have thrown a wrench through the windshield before i figured that one out. f-bird thanks! i called comp cams tech and never thought about the power valve. its gotta be dumping at idle, its a 6.5 now and the tech guy said a 4.5 is what i need. unfortunately my fuel pump seems to have air bounded itself somehow now. fuel bowls ran dry randomly. guess its time to relocate it closer and lower than the tank. any thoughts on electric fuel pumps? mine is a mr gasket from the zone. doesnt suck very well, pushes fine....usually. should i spend the cash on a rotary vane or will this one work fine?
04-24-2012 01:36 PM
F-BIRD'88 Thumpr cams have a lot of overlap and need a lot of initial timing at idle.

recurve the distributor for around 24deg at idle. Shorten-limit the curve to around 10-12deg 24-26 at idle 34-36 @ max advance.

When doing the proform HP carb body swap sometimes the idle air bleeds included in the kit need to be fine tuned.
Look at the origional donor carb body (that the metering block came from) idle air bleeds for inpiration.
The idle air bleeds you need will be very close to this.
A afr gauge is a big help in dialing in the idle air bleeds to a fine edge.
A low cost heated narrow band type is fine for this if you're on a budget.

Carb jetting should be 72-74 pri and 80-85 sec. What you posted is backwards.
get a 4.5" rated power valvel so it will stay closed at idle.
A low manifold vacuum at idle is normal for the thumpr cams.

make these changes and it will run like it should.
It will probabily need a fresh set of plugs too.
04-24-2012 09:17 AM
dawg it might be a intake gasket issue.
I just had an issue with miss at idle and pinging under load and found the intake gasket shifted and 1&3 inlet ports were sucking off each other.
my vacum was reading 17to 19 and no external vacum leaks, BUT i had a leak internally under 1&3 which was suckin in a bit of oil aswell.
was a pita to find this!!!!
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.