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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-10-2012 09:39 PM
69 widetrack
Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
Ray all of your advice has been outstanding, I have no clue what you guys are talking about in the clear blending...

But I have a lot more information than I started with and now I am just armed enough with knowledge to be more dangerous Hahaha

Thanks I appreciate your comment and hope the information helps. As far as clear blending, well, it is a bit of an art. All good painters in commercial shops do it. Paint companies have products specifically designed for it and have courses to teach apprentices how to use it so they become painters instead of applicators.

Just one of the joys of the trade.
All the best to you
Ray
10-10-2012 09:29 PM
59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON Ray all of your advice has been outstanding, I have no clue what you guys are talking about in the clear blending...

But I have a lot more information than I started with and now I am just armed enough with knowledge to be more dangerous Hahaha
10-10-2012 09:21 PM
69 widetrack
Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
Ok paint and body specialists, here is my quandry. I looked up the paint code on my 59 rambler and it came up as Pine Ridge Green and crossed to dupont color 202-83427. the chip i can see online looks darker than the paint in the engine bay and on the door frames. of course the exterior is faded and not a referance. So I am considering painting the car in the factory color.

Now this car will sit OUTSIDE and UNCOVERED. So having said that and being that I am going to attempt to paint the car myself with a cheap gun, what do you suggest? I am not working on the body currently, but I am trying to put togeather a cost budget.
Well Farna, I agree if a guy is gun shy what you suggest does make sense, however In his original post he said "I am going to attempt to paint the car myself with a cheap gun, what do you suggest?" That is where my advice comes from.

Also you mentioned that a commercial shop doesn't blend clear. Well I disagree, they all do. When I was on the floor painting we blended clear daily, especially on a lower quarter repair, the clear blend was on the sail panel. I never cleared both sides of the car and the roof. Insurance companies don't pay you for that. Also, there are shops that do nothing but spot repairs and blend clear coat. It is possible, very possible and when you become good at it, it becomes invisible and second nature.

Just my experiences
10-10-2012 08:57 PM
59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON Farna, I love your responses brother! You always have great ideas. I went down to the paint shop today and checked out the factory color, I was well should I say, less than excited. So again my mind went off on another tangent of paint and I started looking at versions of Synergy Green Metalic like they use on the new cameros, its pretty cool! I dunno I am soo confuzled... I wish I had one of those programs where I could put the car into all kinds of paint schemes to see what I like.

Any way, I am gona see if I can get a hold of this guy with the booth and talk to him a little and see what he can or cant do and for what price, or preferably trade...

we shall see.

Ray, not discounting your responses at all, Farna has responded to numerous different posts I have made and gives great poor mans budget or lack there of perspective. And I love all the various ideas because it gives me a spectrum to work within.
10-10-2012 07:46 PM
farna Look, I'm all for DIY, but how many times have you handled a paint spray gun? You need a reasonably good one, though you can make do with a Harbor Freight special.

The best way to get a good but cheap paint job is to take it to Maaco or whatever the cheap paint job places around are. Now hold off and listen guys!! You do all the body work as if you're going to paint it. Include removing all the trim and everything. All you want Maaco or whoever to do is spray on paint. You might get a run or two near the rocker or something like that, but what do you think you're going to do? Unless you're fairly handy with a spray gun and get it set up just right you'll have more than a couple hard to find runs. If nothing else the kid at Maaco can handle a spray gun better than most first timers. If he's only worked there a week he's already sprayed 20+ cars, so he's had a little practice. Prep is 90% of the paint job. YOU DO THAT!! I've had a few cars sprayed like this at different places (I was USAF for 24 years, didn't stay in one place long enough to have anyone paint two cars!). They all came out AT LEAST as good as I could have done it myself, and for not much more than paint would have cost me (they get it at a discount since they buy so much). They also have a proper spray booth. Every time I've taken a car over that was 99% prepped for them they have taken a bit of extra care spraying it. One because I saved them a lot of time and work, and two because it's obvious I want it to look as good as I can for a limited budget. Well, they just like spraying something out of the ordinary too -- gets looked at, you tell where it was painted, they get more business. So it pays them in the long run. Where they make most of their money is in extra body work. Take it in there for the $250 special (no door jambs) and they will lightly scuff it, mask it off (will mask over anything left on), and spray it. You probably want to get the sealer (seals old paint before spraying new), but I'd skip the clear coat. So you end up with around $400 in a paint job. You can spend that on paint and a cheap spray gun.

You might want to get a touch-up gun and spray the dash and door jambs, and maybe under hood and other places yourself. For those I'd use a single stage and spray in light coats (kind of like spraying with a rattle can).

Base/clear is considered easier for a novice because the base goes on rather dry and doesn't easily run. It will be flat. The clear can run easy, but you can sand runs out as long as you don't over do it and go through the clear. If you do go through the clear you have to re-clear the whole panel. You can't touch-up base/clear easily. You can get by clearing from a body seam or trim line down (or up, or across) to the edge of a panel, but if you try to mask off an area and just clear that you will have a very hard time trying to blend the clear in. Some say they can do it/have done it, but I don't know of a commercial shop that will even try to touch up a small area like that. If chips and touch-ups are a concern, use a single stage paint.
10-10-2012 05:29 PM
69 widetrack Good Job, my friend...that will solve a lot of your compressor issues, help with getting a cleaner paint job and it just feels good when stuff comes together.
10-10-2012 05:13 PM
59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON At the American Legion Meeting last night, I found out the bartenders boyfriend has a paint booth at his house, o I may try to make a trade deal with him for prime and paint. I will do all the prep of course.
10-10-2012 02:00 PM
69 widetrack By the way I'm an AMC guy as well. Got a couple of late 60's and 1 70 AMX. Gotta love them for their originality.

Ray
10-10-2012 01:58 PM
69 widetrack
Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
My air compressor is 30 gallons. As to volume output I'm not sure, but I will buy one sticky pad and try it, if it works for a couple min at a time, that's fine I will just sand, smoke cigar, sand, smoke cigar... Yeah I know factory colors don't really pop, but them again the car is so rare, it pops all by itself!
Give it a try for sanding, buy your sticky paper and pad, you may want to buy a big box of cigars because with a 30 gallon reserve tank you may be doing more smoking than sanding. When it comes to painting you will need a compressor with more reserve and generally a small reserve tank means small CFM. You'll be able to make that determination when you prime, try small areas for priming and see if the compressor keeps up. Remember you can't stop in the middle of a paint job and if your compressor is running continuously you need to be concerned about heat, and condensation coming through your air lines. That would mean that all the money you put into paint goes to waste. Just a thought and good luck.

If I can help in the future let me know.

Have a Cigar for me.
Ray
10-10-2012 01:15 PM
59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON My air compressor is 30 gallons. As to volume output I'm not sure, but I will buy one sticky pad and try it, if it works for a couple min at a time, that's fine I will just sand, smoke cigar, sand, smoke cigar... Yeah I know factory colors don't really pop, but them again the car is so rare, it pops all by itself!
10-10-2012 09:19 AM
69 widetrack
Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
I have a
Campbell Hausfeld Rugged Duty Dual Action Sander: PL1504 Air Sander

I picked it up at a yard sale like a year or two ago and never have used it, its almost brand new. I just need to change the air nipple on it so it matches my air hoses.

and I do have an angle grinder, I was going to pick up a couple knotted wire wheels thinking that that may be the best way to get rid of the bondo.

Ok so on the sanding side of things on an old station wagon, how many sticky sand paper disks should I buy? and how often should I change them?
Nova freak is right, a DA does take an awful lot of air, check the cfm (Cubic Feet per Minute) that your compressor puts out. This is also important when it comes to painting. A paint gun will use as much or more air than your sander.

As far as how many sticky papers you need, I don't know, how much bondo is on your car, how many times has it been painted, is the original paint still on it and is it lacquer. As Nova freak said another option is using air craft stripper, messy, stinky and can burn your skin if you don't use gloves, but it'll strip the paint off your car fairly fast. It'll cost anywhere between $35 and $50 a gallon for quality stripper, but, when quality sticky papers cost 70 cents to a $1.00 a piece or more, you need to way out your options. If the car has a lot of old paint on it, stripper can get expensive, because, it often only takes one layer off at a time. Try a couple of sticky papers first, try a couple of small areas first. If you have only one layer of paint, it may be cheaper to use stripper, multiple layers sand paper may be your best option. Every car is different, substrates are different. I've had cars in front of me and had to analyse the situation carefully as which method would be most cost effective.

Knotted wire wheels, sure give it a shot. If the filler in your car is old style filler, be prepared for a very hard filler. The old stuff (like White Lightning) sanded like concrete. You may need to get more aggressive than a wire wheel depending on what's in there. Many times working on an older car is like asking somebody "how long is the string in your pocket" nobody can really tell until he shows your the string. Cars, you just don't know until you get into it. Lots of variables, but, that's kinda what makes it fun and that's another reason why you take pictures, not just to show the finished product, but to show all the effort it took to get there.
10-10-2012 08:36 AM
AutoGear Couple tips on paint chips:

Find someone that has an actual card with the chips and look at it. Occasionally they pop up online, there was a company called Walter Miller's Auto Literature here in Syracuse (used to be AutoLit.com). I worked there when I was a kid 1 summer. He has a huge collection of dealer ephemera. Owners Manuals, Dealer brochures, factory paint chips and interior options. If he's still in business, I'm sure he has something.

When you get your paint chip card, look at it INDOORS and OUTSIDE. Sometimes the color will change dramatically. A lot of people think yesterdays colors look 'flat', usually theres no metallics in them. So another option would be to look through the paint books at your local jobber and see if theres a similar, modern color. This would retain the feel of the original car, with a little more visual pop; depends on what you want to do with your car.
10-10-2012 06:59 AM
novafreek6872
Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
I have a
Campbell Hausfeld Rugged Duty Dual Action Sander: PL1504 Air Sander

I picked it up at a yard sale like a year or two ago and never have used it, its almost brand new. I just need to change the air nipple on it so it matches my air hoses.

and I do have an angle grinder, I was going to pick up a couple knotted wire wheels thinking that that may be the best way to get rid of the bondo.

Ok so on the sanding side of things on an old station wagon, how many sticky sand paper disks should I buy? and how often should I change them?
Don't know what kind of compressor you have but it takes a big one to run a DA effectively. You might want to check before you buy a bunch of sandpaper for it.

If it were me I would go the aircraft stripper route with sponge stripping disks for the grinder to finish up.

Very cool looking wagon btw... sure you want to paint it back the original color???
10-10-2012 01:24 AM
59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON I have a
Campbell Hausfeld Rugged Duty Dual Action Sander: PL1504 Air Sander

I picked it up at a yard sale like a year or two ago and never have used it, its almost brand new. I just need to change the air nipple on it so it matches my air hoses.

and I do have an angle grinder, I was going to pick up a couple knotted wire wheels thinking that that may be the best way to get rid of the bondo.

Ok so on the sanding side of things on an old station wagon, how many sticky sand paper disks should I buy? and how often should I change them?
10-10-2012 12:34 AM
69 widetrack
Quote:
Originally Posted by 59RAMBLERSUPERWAGON View Post
Ok Ray, got it, what do you know about industrial paint? I was talking to a paint guy about my project and he suggested either industrial paint, or the paint they use on semi trucks.

again I am just trying to sort out information from various sources.

also what is the most cost effective method for removing really old bondo

Next what grit should I use when I start stripping the old paint from the body?
Well, industrial paint or Semi Truck paint is a bit different depending on what brand and product you use. If your on a budget, you may need to rule this product out especially Dupont's Imron, pricey and you need to understand the technique to apply it to get even colour when spraying metallics. PPG does have a product, (in Canada where I'm from it's called Essential) it's cost effective but only available in single stage. Tough product, good gloss and relatively easy to apply. I still believe that automotive base clear would be the way to go. If your looking at a straight industrial paint, it may be difficult to get colour match or even something close to your original colour.

As far as how to remove old bondo, Depending on the tools you have at your disposal, I would recommend cutting it out with a dual action (DA) orbital and 40 grit paper. Set your DA to the position where the pad is turning, not turning and vibrating. In the creases and hard to get at areas, use a firm bristled wire wheel. That should do the job.

To strip old paint from your car, if your using sand paper, use 80 grit on a dual action orbital. Again set it so the pad is only spinning. Keep moving the sander, don't leave it in one spot to long, that way you will avoid heating up a panel and warping it.

Any other questions, fire away.
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