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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-01-2013 05:59 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks View Post
Why do you sand sealer? To reduce orange peel or???
any bits of trash at all ,I fear the trash poking through when I color sand,and I guess the texture too I dont really want to spend all the hours getting it perfectly flat then spraying a sealer with even the slightest amount of texture to paint on....it dosent have anything to do with adheasion..Giving the epoxy a quick sanding sets my mind at ease...
12-31-2012 02:07 PM
mitmaks
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I do it all the time I hardly ever use a sealer (even epoxy ) Only on high end super straight work do I use an epoxy sealer when I do seal I always sand it before paint.
If youve ever sanded an after market panel(like a hood )you;ll sand the primer off in many spots (I usually sand all that cheap primer completely off)or if you strip a panel and it dosent need any filler work you can reduce the SPI to 20-40% and after spraying two coats go right to paint,it flashes pretty fast.
Why do you sand sealer? To reduce orange peel or???
12-31-2012 07:48 AM
deadbodyman I do a lot of chem stripping and all I can say is you can always tell when youve hit the epoxy.2k strips right off, epoxy is a little tougher always requiring a fresh coat of stripper just for the epoxy...
applying materials is one thing but removing them tells a lot more...
You never really know about the materials or your proceedure untill you do a job and have it come back damaged again ....this also tells a lot...
12-29-2012 10:00 AM
Hotbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay View Post
I like simple solutions. Also I will use a paint system until it fails one time, then find something better. I also avoid new products for a couple years, until the manufacturer works out the "early production problems". When I get a system that works for me every time, I will NOT change it unless it fails. (Yes... they do reformulate products to meet EPA standards and such... and it usually leads to problems. I will not use the latest "trick-of-the-week" system, when mine is working just fine.

I have used 2K primer only for about 20 years with zero failures. Sand the metal good, then metal prep 30-60 minutes before primer, and NEVER has adhesion problems. The only time I would consider epoxy first is if it will be left in primer and exposed to the weather. As far as wetsanding, I do it on every job, and then seal and paint. No problems with this in 20 years of full time work.

I know I am a dinosaur... but I guarantee my work for as long as they own the project. That takes confidence. I like Marhyde's Ultimate Primer.

Most all of my family and Friends have Body shops or do Paint and Body work

i am 3rd generation.

i have a close friend that does exactly what you do sand, Metal prep then 2k.

i keep telling him his Paint will fail and he says after 30 years haven't had 1 come back b/c of it!

i think ill stick to Epoxy on Bare metal like it was designed and to be used for.

Travis
12-29-2012 09:55 AM
Hotbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks View Post
Don't think that I'm some amateur who just grabbed gun in his hand. I've been painting, doing bodywork for good 15 years now. I have used many different primers, expensive PPG K36 and compared to K36 Finish 1 is great primer for fraction of a price (and I get it at discount from local SW dealer)
I'm sure there are more expensive products out there but for repairs this works just great.
I do use SPI epoxy and yes it's great product. It is too expensive to use as a high build primer though and I have 2k primer for just that purpose.
never said u were a Amateur,lol!.

Besides that has nothing to do with Primer.

i have stated i used a few gallons of it and thought of it as Garbage,junk Etc.

they gave me a Case and i ended giving 2 gallons w/act away to some guys painting a Horse trailer.

SPI primer is reasonably priced and A lot better.

if you like and get decent build out of it then good for u.i got neither out of that Particular Product.therefor i never recommend it.

Best of luck Travis
12-29-2012 09:30 AM
TucsonJay
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
The 60's ....No I painted my first car in 76 (at 16) did bodywork since 14yr...
and yes any of the primers of today are much better than what we started out with ....BUT I really feel the guys that started out using 2k's are missing a big part of the learning curve by not learning all the steps to get lacquer primers to work right...for instance you could NEVER prime over something finished out in 80 grit which is fairly common today....
Still more we have in common! Yes... lacquer primer was terrible for shrinkage into a porous surface. I did a lot of Corvette restos in the '80s, and switched to enamel primers, since the early Vette 'glass was sooooo open and pourous! At least the enamel primer would not come back and bite you six months after it's painted!!! :-(

Also... If you don't count spray painting my bikes and model cars... I painted my first real car in High school, in '65, at age 16. :-)~ "My brother from another mother!"
12-29-2012 09:11 AM
deadbodyman The 60's ....No I painted my first car in 76 (at 16) did bodywork since 14yr...
and yes any of the primers of today are much better than what we started out with ....BUT I really feel the guys that started out using 2k's are missing a big part of the learning curve by not learning all the steps to get lacquer primers to work right...for instance you could NEVER prime over something finished out in 80 grit which is fairly common today....
12-29-2012 08:02 AM
TucsonJay
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Oh yeah,I remember that ultimate primer it was pretty darn good stuff and cheap too...I used itwhen it first came out and for a few years after that ..do they still make it
I just bought two gallons... so they must. :-)

I guess when you started painting in the sixties like myself... using lacquer and enamel primers... then even the worst primers today would be an improvement! I just like a product that does the job every time.

I should add that moisture is not the problem in Arizona, that it is in other states. The air here is much drier, and the amount of wet weather is far less too. At least it isn't like the days that my home state of Illinois would salt the roads in the winter, and a car could rust out in two years!!! Recently I have done a Charger and an AMX from Florida, and had to deal with extensive rust damage. Reminded me of the "good old days" back home!!! {:-(
12-29-2012 07:51 AM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay View Post
I like simple solutions. Also I will use a paint system until it fails one time, then find something better. I also avoid new products for a couple years, until the manufacturer works out the "early production problems". When I get a system that works for me every time, I will NOT change it unless it fails. (Yes... they do reformulate products to meet EPA standards and such... and it usually leads to problems. I will not use the latest "trick-of-the-week" system, when mine is working just fine.

I have used 2K primer only for about 20 years with zero failures. Sand the metal good, then metal prep 30-60 minutes before primer, and NEVER has adhesion problems. The only time I would consider epoxy first is if it will be left in primer and exposed to the weather. As far as wetsanding, I do it on every job, and then seal and paint. No problems with this in 20 years of full time work.

I know I am a dinosaur... but I guarantee my work for as long as they own the project. That takes confidence. I like Marhyde's Ultimate Primer.
Oh yeah,I remember that ultimate primer it was pretty darn good stuff and cheap too...I used itwhen it first came out and for a few years after that ..do they still make it
12-29-2012 02:10 AM
mitmaks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotbo View Post
i have used finish 1 2k JUNK IMO!!!

you must have used some really lower line Primers to think this stuff is High build or good?

i use Sherwin Williams products.

i use there P30 set-up and love it,very expensive but some of the finest 2k primer i have ever used.

as far as Epoxy SPI is top dog for me.

in collision repair i just don't have the time to use it from start to finish.

all Bare metal should have Epoxy cover it then go from there with whatever you want.

i always seal either with my P30 converted to sealer or Epoxy.

Travis.
Don't think that I'm some amateur who just grabbed gun in his hand. I've been painting, doing bodywork for good 15 years now. I have used many different primers, expensive PPG K36 and compared to K36 Finish 1 is great primer for fraction of a price (and I get it at discount from local SW dealer)
I'm sure there are more expensive products out there but for repairs this works just great.
I do use SPI epoxy and yes it's great product. It is too expensive to use as a high build primer though and I have 2k primer for just that purpose.
12-28-2012 11:04 PM
TucsonJay I like simple solutions. Also I will use a paint system until it fails one time, then find something better. I also avoid new products for a couple years, until the manufacturer works out the "early production problems". When I get a system that works for me every time, I will NOT change it unless it fails. (Yes... they do reformulate products to meet EPA standards and such... and it usually leads to problems. I will not use the latest "trick-of-the-week" system, when mine is working just fine.

I have used 2K primer only for about 20 years with zero failures. Sand the metal good, then metal prep 30-60 minutes before primer, and NEVER has adhesion problems. The only time I would consider epoxy first is if it will be left in primer and exposed to the weather. As far as wetsanding, I do it on every job, and then seal and paint. No problems with this in 20 years of full time work.

I know I am a dinosaur... but I guarantee my work for as long as they own the project. That takes confidence. I like Marhyde's Ultimate Primer.
12-28-2012 09:08 PM
Hotbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I think its called dimentions but its been a while, the stuff I tried really sucked so I never used it again (only once) But SW 7000 high end products are some of the best out there (top three) very expensive .....
If money was no object I'd go with glasurit base and it s a toss up between Glasurit clear or SPI universal clear (tough choice) but SPI preforms just as well but its a much better deal so I'd lean towards the SPI then SPI epoxy,on a high end job where money isnt a problem SPI epoxy would be the ONLY primer I use ,no 2k at all....
I do a lot of budget work also so I use a lot of the low end stuff too...Omini plus(base) is best for color match,Nason would be second...
as far as clear goes SPI euro clear or the SPI production clear...thats it...and I've tried about all of them
For best SS(urathane) low end paintI really like the Nason best it flows out like glass without runs and holds up very well the rest are all about the same.
.The only 2k primer I use is SPI but I use so little of it I only buy it a Qt at a time...again I've tried about all of them,I find this is the best deal with no (cheap crap) problems....

Generally ,on good production quality production spot work on cars no older than five years I'll use Dupont chroma base,SPI clear.SPI epoxy...

Low end production work would be omini plus base with Spi Euro clear,spi epoxy primer ,sometimes SPI 2k
This is just my opinion(for what its worth)...I'm a cheap bassurd and I want the best for my money and it took about 35 yrs to form this opinion but then everyone has one with different reasons to base it on...but dont buy on price alone listen to what we are sayin and make your own choice...You'll be way ahead of us when we first started...
All that said it takes experiance and lots of it to get the best results ,the paint and materials require some thinking ,spending a ton of money on the best of the best and the most expensive wotn neccessarily give you a good or better job.it might just give you a crappy job that 'll last forever though...so think about a little,then mabee call Barry at SPI and see how he 'll stand by you and help you out from start to finish with your project then call PPG and Dupont even SW and see how well they help you out with the project and the choice will be simple...

Dimention is a line to all itself with SW.

Finish 1(Acme) is different.

if i had 2 put a lower line Primer ahead of the others it would be Omni 282 ahead of the Nason,Transtar and Nason(some of the lower lines i have used.

The reason we left Dupont was the price(my Ole man had been with them since 65)we switched to PPG b/c a friend of mine i went to School with was the Jobber and Gave a better deal.lasted for some time.i used every product PPG had over that course,liked them all.

he left then got tired of Pricing Plus some other things.went to Pro-spray like Pro spray base nothing else about there Product was impressive for me.

I have a SW jobber close that begged me for years to get a Bank and try them.

so guess what i did i use SW ultra 7000 with the Ultra line of Primers.

they gave me 4 cases of Finish1 720 clear(overall Clear)and i like it! Sprays good looks good,ect.

i still use SPI 2100 clear,Primers,Epoxy and cleaners.i got lucky and my Jobber gave me a bunch of SW products for using them.

when they Run out i will Mix more SPI back into my stuff then SW.

just b/c of the money savings alone.

Travis
12-28-2012 07:28 PM
deadbodyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Finish one products are junk but Sherwin Williams products are the best thing since sliced bread? Isn't finish line a product I SW?
I think its called dimentions but its been a while, the stuff I tried really sucked so I never used it again (only once) But SW 7000 high end products are some of the best out there (top three) very expensive .....
If money was no object I'd go with glasurit base and it s a toss up between Glasurit clear or SPI universal clear (tough choice) but SPI preforms just as well but its a much better deal so I'd lean towards the SPI then SPI epoxy,on a high end job where money isnt a problem SPI epoxy would be the ONLY primer I use ,no 2k at all....
I do a lot of budget work also so I use a lot of the low end stuff too...Omini plus(base) is best for color match,Nason would be second...
as far as clear goes SPI euro clear or the SPI production clear...thats it...and I've tried about all of them
For best SS(urathane) low end paintI really like the Nason best it flows out like glass without runs and holds up very well the rest are all about the same.
.The only 2k primer I use is SPI but I use so little of it I only buy it a Qt at a time...again I've tried about all of them,I find this is the best deal with no (cheap crap) problems....

Generally ,on good production quality production spot work on cars no older than five years I'll use Dupont chroma base,SPI clear.SPI epoxy...

Low end production work would be omini plus base with Spi Euro clear,spi epoxy primer ,sometimes SPI 2k
This is just my opinion(for what its worth)...I'm a cheap bassurd and I want the best for my money and it took about 35 yrs to form this opinion but then everyone has one with different reasons to base it on...but dont buy on price alone listen to what we are sayin and make your own choice...You'll be way ahead of us when we first started...
All that said it takes experiance and lots of it to get the best results ,the paint and materials require some thinking ,spending a ton of money on the best of the best and the most expensive wotn neccessarily give you a good or better job.it might just give you a crappy job that 'll last forever though...so think about a little,then mabee call Barry at SPI and see how he 'll stand by you and help you out from start to finish with your project then call PPG and Dupont even SW and see how well they help you out with the project and the choice will be simple...
12-28-2012 04:30 PM
Hotbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. I guess I just misunderstood your post. I never expect the same quality from the cheaper lines of the big companies but sometimes it what the customer wants. A good example is a car I have lined up. The customer wanted to use PPG from beginning to end. After I called and priced everything, he changed his mind and decided not to spend $2100 on materials alone.
no feathers ruffled at all

i have used tons of the cheaper line Primers.

none of them imo are really worth a crap.

i have used and really like SPI products for a few years and there Primers are top notch with a nice price to boot.

i got into the P30 SW Primer and P50 when i got hooked up with them and think its good stuff but the price sucks!



DTM primers i have never felt safe using on large open areas of bare metal.

Etch primers are 70s tech.imo

Epoxy all the way on Bare metal.

Everyones(top companies PPG,Dupont,SW,Spies ect.) products if you use them throughout are way over priced!



Best wishes Travis.
12-28-2012 12:28 PM
carolinacustoms Wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers. I guess I just misunderstood your post. I never expect the same quality from the cheaper lines of the big companies but sometimes it what the customer wants. A good example is a car I have lined up. The customer wanted to use PPG from beginning to end. After I called and priced everything, he changed his mind and decided not to spend $2100 on materials alone.
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