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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-24-2013 02:13 PM
edselman59 Another thing that I notice is that paint finishing on OEM clear coat is different than aftermarket clear coats, and aviation paints. I work on all of them and they all have their little issues.

I would say the lighter the color the more forgiving on swirls and haze to the naked eye, but its harder to hide contamination in the base color.
04-13-2013 11:24 AM
tech69 I think sanding at 1500 and ending with 2500 and going to wool makes it easier. There's guys that say swirls are an issue but then they go cut with an 800, which is much more aggressive than a swirl. A wool pad just ensures you are getting everything and losing your head over it, andif you do it right and follow with an aggressive foam pad with the same compound it's just another grit to cancel to me. The key is to compound with the foam pad and it's like it never even seen wool. On black I compound the foam more thoroughly obviously.

Another important thing is to try to achieve the true gloss it should have in compound on a foam pad. I've seen countless guys compound with a pad just til the haze is gone but you can do better and get a deeper gloss by doing a little more. If it looks like it has been polished when you are done with compounding on foam then it's a cake walk from there and your polish isn't there to hide anything, it's just there for the cherry on top.
04-13-2013 07:42 AM
cyclopsblown34 I've used the 3m system up to 5000 grit on a 3/8 throw and 3/16 throw DA. I get better results on the larger throw. I now polish with a 3m yellow pad and finish with the black 3m pad and swirl remover.
04-13-2013 07:22 AM
JoAnnBortles I switched over to wool 2 years ago and i love it. But I cannot say if all wood pads are created equal. I use all Meguiars products for buffing.
I hate buffing and have tried a number of products to make buffing easier. I used 3M for many years but found the Meguiars products work better for me.

Wool cuts better and quicker than foam.
But, as wool will heat up the surface quicker, it will also burn the paint if you're not careful. You have to keep the pad moving and make sure its wet enough.

if you try out a wool pad, practice on a spare piece and get used to how it works before using it on the real thing.
04-13-2013 07:17 AM
roger1 This stuff is not for me.
I tried it and didn't have any luck at all. I wasted a bunch of time and money

Also, with 3M expect to pay about 100 to 200% more than competitors just because of the name.

This is the stuff I'm going to try next. I'm looking at the Lexlogic and Lake Country pads.

Chemical Guys COM_101 - CGC-3 Heavy Duty Compound (1 Gal)
04-13-2013 06:57 AM
edselman59 I figure I would update this thread. There is a very straight forward way of buffing clear coat.

Industry standard for professionals. Used to fix bumpers all the way to repairing paint defects on airplanes.

The polishes also come in pints in case you don't want to get full quarts.

07-07-2005 03:41 PM
Paintguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Most people that sand and buff for a living have a dedicated DA for colorsanding.
That's one thing I was thinking all the way through reading this topic. I've found out the hard way that using your 'regular' DA is not a good idea so I now keep 'clean' one just for this work.

I'm in a small, fast-paced production shop, and it's surprising just how much time the Abralon pads have saved us.
07-06-2005 09:44 PM
baddbob You'll have to buy the DA pad seperately, your abrasives supplier should have one. The Abralon discs were about $2 each when I was buying them, 25 to a box if I remember right. Bob
07-06-2005 05:09 PM
roger1 Thanks Bob. I think the idea of a dedicated DA for this purpose makes sense.

Are there any 6" DA's that come with the hook & loop backing?
Or, do you have to buy the the hook and loop backing separately and where do you find them?
07-04-2005 06:49 PM
baddbob Roger, the mirka pads are hook and loop, and they have a foam built into them for going over contours. These are used wet. I think they are called abralon? pads. I didn't know they were available in 4000, 2000 was the finest grit available when I was using them. I've been using 3M 3000 lately.

Found them on the web for ya-abralon

Oh, and another very important thing to remember when using any of these DA systems- make absolutely sure your DA, hose ends, and hose is perfectly clean before use, small particles of abrasive or dirt from using these items in regular body work will ruin your day if they fall from the tool or hose and land on the hood and get ground into the fresh paint. One tiny piece of anything. Most people that sand and buff for a living have a dedicated DA for colorsanding.
07-04-2005 12:51 PM
roger1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
I have always had a problem with scratches when I use a wool pad.
They usually can't be seen until I have the car in my garage under the
fluorescent lights. I've tried everything, cleaning it often, different
compounds, I always got a few scratches that I'd have to compound out.
I liked the wool pad because it's so much faster.
I have finally got a system where I don't use it at all.
I wetsand with 2000, usually by hand and block, then I use a DA, a
4ooo grit pad with water. It's a soft pad by Mirka. I think 3M has the
same thing. After using that the finish is so smooth that a foam buffing
pad with a medium polishing compound brings the shine out so
fast that it's actually faster than the wool pad. And I don't get any scratches.
That 4000 grit gives it a semi-gloss finish that barely needs buffing.
I am really interested in trying your process. What DA sanders works best with the Mirka pads? Do any come with the hook and loop backing needed for these pads?
And, how do you handle the contours and tighter curves on the body?
06-27-2005 02:38 PM
BondoKing Ive been using the foam pads for over a decade now.. dang Im gettin old, anyways I too like the way the wool pad cuts and I have one in the drawer in case I need it, but I think that Mirror glaze pads are far far better pads than the 3M waffle pads.. Foam is the way to go especially for a new guy getting started, lets face it everyone and I mean everyone burns through the clear or ss the first few times they start buffing... It is just the way it is, so if you are using foam pads it takes more effort to burn through...plus they leave much less scratches that you have to worry about getting out..

Jim has hipped me to the 2000# stepped up to the 4000 on the DA... It makes buffing sooooo much easier.. You can compound in 1 pass, then polish and call the customer.... and if you have any heavier scratches that you thought were out, they will show when you use the 4000# and you can fix that before compounding... Just makes for a faster job... I think on overalls it is faster if you start with 800 on the DA and work your way up, for panel repairs I just use Nikkens 2000 wet and then step up to the 4000

Matthew
06-27-2005 01:54 PM
Bee4Me I have this one.
Buffer
It's held up great for the last year.
Most foam pads are hook & loop and you can get a cheaper backing pad than the 3M which will work fine. Most buffers do not come with this pad and I doubt that one does.Mine did so might be worth a phone call to find out.
Getting either the Mirka or 3M Trizac 3000 pads are the ONLY way to go.
They do cost a little extra but if your time and effort are worth anything (I'm kinda lazy someday's) are worth every penny.
After a 1500 I go with the Trizac damp and the actual buffing by machine is a snap compared to stepping up compounds/pads and MORE work.
I rarely use a wool pad any more after getting turned on to this. A white waffle pad with some Perfect-it III regular cut or some Perfect-it 3000 (haven't tried it,but the demo look's great) then some swirl remover for the appropriate color paint,light or dark, with a black waffle pad will give you the BEST possible finish available.
Doing it by hand with 2000 and up will work but the finish from the DA & Trizac is WAY above anything done by hand.

I've learned this the HARD way by tring to cut costs and doing it on the cheap but the FACT is that unless you use the BEST products,You will not get the BEST finish. It costs $$$ for these products and after getting discouraged and working my ***** off broke down and got what I needed a little at a time and if I was to do over again,would NOT waste time and money on the cheap stuff cause it's just wasted capital instead of money well spent.
So what if everyone thinks $360.00 is ALOT for just a spray gun.
After working myself to death sanding 'peel.I've seen the light.
Finally.
06-27-2005 10:17 AM
Shakey I have been seeing a lot of posts about buffing lately, but hate to admit I am still not sure exactly what I need to do and what I need to buy. Might be a good topic for a new FAQ from those in the know (hint hint)

Unfortunately I am way over what I had originally budgeted for painting this car, so I can't afford to pay someone else, or to buy new $200+ tools to buff it out, unless it is a total waste of time without buying that good of a tool.

I understand that I should wet sand it down with 2500 -3000 grit paper, but then do I need 2 or 3 different compounds and pads to finish it up?

Has anyone tried this buffer and foam pad? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92623

I think the 3M waffle pads are hook and loop right? Would I have to get a new backing pad to use them on that buffer?

Bottom line, I don't want to keep from doing what is needed to finish it up decently, but I also am trying to keep from spending money I don't have to. At this point elbow grease is a lot easier to come by than money.

I did help a painter friend of mine buff cars while I was between jobs 20+ years ago, but have forgotten most everything about it.

ps I painted the interior and jambs this weekend, and in my eyes they came out great. I do have a few areas where I got it darker than others, but since Pearl looks different depending on the direction you look at it, the differing shades aren't too noticeable. I might try to get a couple of pictures and put them up later.
06-27-2005 05:31 AM
jcclark I have always had a problem with scratches when I use a wool pad.
They usually can't be seen until I have the car in my garage under the
fluorescent lights. I've tried everything, cleaning it often, different
compounds, I always got a few scratches that I'd have to compound out.
I liked the wool pad because it's so much faster.
I have finally got a system where I don't use it at all.
I wetsand with 2000, usually by hand and block, then I use a DA, a
4ooo grit pad with water. It's a soft pad by Mirka. I think 3M has the
same thing. After using that the finish is so smooth that a foam buffing
pad with a medium polishing compound brings the shine out so
fast that it's actually faster than the wool pad. And I don't get any scratches.
That 4000 grit gives it a semi-gloss finish that barely needs buffing.
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