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200-4R Build Finally Begins!

30K views 62 replies 12 participants last post by  dwwl 
#1 ·
Hey everyone. I am Finally ready to start tearing down the trans for rebuilding. I am looking at picking up a core for $100 out of an 88 monte carlo ss, or my friend has one with a fresh rebuild in it that wants to trade for a set or rebuilt vortec heads i have. I have about $300 into the heads. Do you think I could pick up the trans that is rebuilt and maybe put in a shift recalibration kit along with a new servo? Originally i was gonna just get a core and rebuild it myself with CKPerformance MASTER REBUILD KIT #24RRK/C. http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RREBUILDKITS.html Included in this kit is
GENERAL OVERHAUL KIT #24RMRK
6 piece washer kit with 2 oversize sun shell washers
12 piece bushing kit
4 piece rear section selective end play washer kit
15 piece center section selective end play washer kit
All friction and steel plates
Updated 3 friction 4th clutch pack
6 friction 3-4 cluch pack with red lined racing frictions
Alto oversize red lined racing band with welded anchors
High flow filter assembly.
SHIFT RECALIBRATION KIT #24RSRK/A ($129.00)
HEAT TREAT PUMP STATOR TUBE #24RCC/PST ($34.99)
HEAT TREATED SUN GEAR SHELL #24RCC/SGS ($34.99)
HEAVY DUTY LOCK UP SOLENOID #29.99

I am gonna be putting about 400hp/tq to the trans behind a vortec sbc355. Thanks for all the input everyone!!!
 
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#34 ·
I recommend getting a Billet shafted Forward Drum & using CKs Shift Recal kit w/Billet Servo.
His #24RRK/SS Rebuild kit contains those 3 w/discount.

I'd also use a 10-Vane Rotor kit. The 13-Vane tend to break more easily at higher rpm & pressures.

www.CKPerformance.com

Depending on how much spray you use you may want to ask about the .555" TV & .400" Low/Reverse boost valves. They can be swapped inplace of the .500" & .300" size which are standard in the Recal kit.

The splines on the OD Carrier & OD Ring Gear are the next weak link, then the Input Shaft.

I have all 4340 Billet parts in my Trans except the Output Shaft, I don't think I'm pushing 800TQ :D I rollerized my own parts, easy if you have a Lathe.

There was a Suplement to Chris' 2004R Manual but, I don't know if He has anymore or if they're available now. A Member on TB.com asked but, hasn't received an answer.
 
#35 ·
Thanks for the reply! I was starting to lean more towards the 24RRK/SS rebuild kit after reading about the weakness in the forward drum.

I haven't really been able to reliably drive my car for the past three summers so I don't mind throwing extra money at the good components to make sure it lives and I can really rack up the miles this upcoming summer.

Would you recommend this pump or any others? TH-200 4R Hi-Performance 10 Vane Pump, this is a must for high RPM engines I believe CK in their Street strip trans uses a new GM pump. Also do you think the OD carrier and ring gear will be okay say around 450-500hp? If I spray it I don't think I would go more than 100-150 but then again im sure it will be tempting to not just throw the biggest jet in there and hang on lol. I think Art Carr did a carcraft article and said around 550 these start to fail but of course vehicle weight and tq play a roll on this also. After I put it together I am gonna also find a transmission dyno to run it and make sure everything works good before I put it in the car.
 
#38 ·
If you plan on dual feeding you NEED the billet forward drum.

www.CKPerformance.com

Scott McClay Transmissions, 200-4R Drum

200-4R Components

http://www.jakesperformance.com/200-4R_Rebuild_Tech.html

TH200-4R Rebuild - Dynotech Performance - GM High-Tech Performance Magazine

200R4 Rebuild

Here are some links. I have a bunch more that include suppliers that have parts.

I started a project thing on this site and included some pix. I am moving along on my rebuild but my time is limited as is my %. Did you contact David Husek? He is a noted builder full of excellent info.
 
#43 ·
I work with a fellow that grew up working at the first Art Carr location. He even worked at the second location after Art sold the place to the business investor guy that moved the business to Las Wages area. He has stories about his days there.

:pimp:
 
#41 ·
Thanks for all the links TexasT. Those will def come in handy when it comes time to order parts.

SSedan I will definitely check out that link also. Hopefully this weekend I can pull the rest of the guts out of the trans and see what else needs to get replaced and is worn etc. Maybe get the case out to get cleaned up so I can have it painted and be reading for assembly whenever that happens.
 
#44 ·
Well I got the transmission all taken apart today and found a couple blued pieces and a broken 1-2 accumulator spring. Any idea what would cause the spring to break? Also the Accumulator plate has some gouges in it im assuming from the broken spring. Should I replace this? I noticed pitting on a bunch of the steels. What causes this? Lastly I noticed some blueing on some hard parts. Can I get some input on if they need to get replaced or not. Looks like the forward clutch housing and the internal overdrive gear.

Thanks everyone!!
 

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#46 ·
Broken Accumulator springs are very common.
I'd replace that Acc. Plate, it's worn more than most.
Steels should be replaced, hot spots from heat/wear.
May want to invest in a Billet shafted Forward Drum. I'm sure that one has been weakend from the heat, they're the #1 weak link anyway.
OD Ring Gear is probably Ok, most all look blueish.
Check all the Planetary carrier pinion gears for pitting/cracking & check Gear to Pin & side clearance, Front, Rear & OD. Spline wear etc..
 
#47 · (Edited)
thanks for the reply ssedan. What causes the accumulator spring to break and what will happen when it does. I never drove the car I pulled the trans from so idk how it shifted or acted.

Also I noticed that the forward drum on Jake's site is $299 where as CKperformance has theirs listed at $389. Is there a difference between the two?
 
#50 ·
I was given the tip about the bucket on one of those links. Another is to use a brake drum that the tail fits in but I didn't have one. Check out the gnttype.org link. He has some very good tips for reassembly. I am going to place a call to David Husek when I get to the reassembly stage. I think mine has been overhauled before as the clutches look pretty new.

Mine will go into my Regal. It has a 700r4 in it now but came with a 2004r when it was new.
It is a turbo v6.
 
#55 · (Edited)
I want to give a big thanks to SSedan64 for the input. Great info.

Also I have run across another information packed place and while not 200 4r specific it does have some info on clutches and how they have different purposes and needs.
700R4 4L60E 4L80E How To Build High Performance Transmission III - Trutechtrans.com

There are several parts to the article but this is wwhere static and dynamic are discussed.

I have come across several different bands and would like some input. Both appear to be the 2 1/4" wide variety but have different clutch material.
Red Alto appears cheaper But I have read of the carbon metallic being "the next best thing to sliced bread".
http://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/np84.pdf
Any thoughts?

Blue Plate Clutches from Raybestos? Any input?
http://www.redrider.us/RaybestosBlue2-1.jpg
http://www.redrider.us/RaybestosB2.jpg
 
#56 ·
from matt69cutlass at oldspwoer.com

Re: Drilling 200-R front drain
Remove the pump, disassemble and remove front bushing and seal. Take a 5/16 and enlarge the drainback hole, take the drill and slightly "wiggle" the drill to elongate the drain hole. Flip the pump over and drill the intersecting drain hole to match the front. Once this is all done install a new bushing, making sure it doesn't cover the drain hole (now you see the reason for elongating the hole) and install a new seal. A seal retainer from a late model 4L60/4L60E would be a wise addition.
Thought this of interest.

also, this. Kinda long but it has a bunch of part numbers and such. I signed up for the mailing list but was unable to find his posts on the build from he77. Maybe someone else has a link.

The Monte Carlo Mailing List: Tech Articles
 
#57 ·
i rebuilt my own 200 4r and its been working just fine. read the book read the book. take your time, keep it in order. keep it clean, and double ckeck everthing (twice). talked to a tranny fella and he told me how people started working on their own tranny and then screwed it up and then thought he could fix it. I'm retired so time wasn't a problem. while my toy stayed warm in the garage, i built the tranny. lots of fun. so much so, that i built a second one. extra clutches bigger valves upgraded relieved pump now that i've done mine, i can't figure out why more of us are not using the 200 4r. IL kept my 350 tranny put away incase my kids someday want to put it back to stock after im gone. but for now i've got my cake (tranny) and eating (driving) it to.
 
#59 ·
The cq was from a ss monte from 1984 or 5. Its ok, but its one of the early versions of the 200 4r. Its a good rebuilder if you throw some bigger valves, better red clutches and upgraded the pump. Don't go cheap on it or you will pay later. You need to read up on the 200 before you rebuild it. I up the clutch count on mine. I rebuilt the pump to 10 vane from 7. Hardened rings and relieved it. I can tell you that if you use the bigger valves, do not drill out the separator plate if you use the bigger 2nd gear servo, or you will get shifts that are a little rough. Just revamped a deep pan for my toy. I even built my own deep filter so it sits on the bottom of the pan. I didn't like the idea of using the 700 filter. I liked the idea of the 200 filter feeding from the top, but sitting on the bottom of the pan. That way the garbage won't be sucked into the filter. It took a while to get it figured out, but it worked fine. Have fun with it. I've even got a spare one I rebuilt.
 
#61 ·
No, you've got a good core. A 86 or87 would of had some minor upgrades, but if you rebuild with some new better hard parts, bigger valves and better clutches and upgraded pump, you could have a good tranny. Your tranny should have the governor set up for (calibrated) for 3.73 gears. Stator tube should be replaced, when you upgrade the pump. I went overboard on my build of my second tranny. Its the one I put in my nova. It got 5 forward, 9 direct, 3 overrun, 3 fourth clutches and wide 2nd band. I know some say that the thin steels are subject to heat warping, but I run low thermostat, deep pan and large coolers. You got to remember, you're going to have to spend time on the minor little things to make this all work. You will have to move the cross member back and drill new holes. I had to even notch the tang on the cross member so I could reach one of the pan bolts. Nothing is easy. If you don't like the challenge, for get it. Good luck.
 
#62 ·
How is your build coming along?

I was able to get a smoking deal on a torque converter for mine and the selectives and washer kit came to try to tighten up my lower section. I ended up putting red Raybestos stage 1 clutches in the direct and tan borg warner in the rest of the places, and got a black carbon band. I got the bearing set from here
Transmission Bearing KIT, 2004R, 1976-85, 6 Bearings 54201B
to replace the roller bearings. There is a bushing in the lower planet that is recommended to be replaced with a bearing

and the one in the other planetary was fun too as I found it necessary to remove the planets to get old out and new in.


You haven't had fun until you did this.

I was also told to double up the wave spring on the low/rev piston to soften the 'clunk' as it goes into reverse.
 
#63 ·
That looks like a lot of fun rebuilding that lower. If I have to rebuild mine again i'll have to do that, so i'll have extra fun. I will remember that doubling of wave spring trick. I haven't had the clunk, but i'll remember it. I did double up the gear selector spring which made shifting gears stiffer, and I like that. I,v e applied that trick to my stand by tranny as well. I used the deep pan and put the filter on the bottom of the pan by putting 3/4 inch spacer cut from a filler tube seal. fit like a glove. I've modified that filter three times now and this turned out the best. Love hearing about all the different things done to these 200-4r's.
 
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