|06-20-2004 03:51 AM|
|idle.wild||Hey, if you want a flow comparisson of cylinder heads go to chevy high performance magazine online, go into tech articles and check out the cylinder head flow comparisson. The afr's out flow all other heads, the test was with the 180, 190, and 210 heads right out of the box, those heads are cast only with the cnc'd heads being 185, 195 and 215 cc heads! Good luck in making your choice.|
|05-08-2004 06:12 PM|
I had a guy tell me the same thing. I said if I had built me engine to work without the juice, I'd race it without the juice. I built it specifically for nitrous use. I still won the race off the bottle anyway. I use home ported phase 2 bowtie heads on my 406.
|05-07-2004 03:19 PM|
|406 ss monte||you made a good point about the n2o, but i want all motor (for now). i am planing to add about a 200-250 shot of n2o later on. that will be a bad mama jama when i do, but there is always some ********* out there that say's " you can't out run me without the bottle". that's the *********'s i'm after.|
|05-07-2004 10:12 AM|
Don't take what you see in print to be something you can recreate at home. The dyno conditions are as perfect as can be had and much tuning gets done to achieve the numbers they put in print.
I'm not saying that we aren't capable tuners ourselves, I'm saying that the numbers aren't real world. Think about it, If it's possible for CHP to squeeze 525lb/ft of torque from a 406 with vortech heads, parts house cam and pump gas why do we even need aftermarket heads? Stick it with freeway gears and let the motor grunt right.
I personally think they came very close to burning a few exhaust valves in most of those "tests" to get the published numbers. We don't take those kinds of risks with our stuff cuz it's our money.
Cnc ported heads are wonderful flow producers and AFR has the best deal going for the money on cnc porting compared to the cost of unported heads. Don't think for one minute I wouldn't but a set of Trick Flow 215's and clean up the casting flash. For the $600 difference I'll get a nice N2O setup and spank any numbers that a similar engine would get with AFR's for the same money.
Not to mention the nitrous cams usually idle better, have an edge in mpg and it's easier to tune the engine with vacuum.
|05-07-2004 12:20 AM|
My dad just bought a 1989 firebird with a 11:1 383 with comp package AFR 210 heads, a 750 carb, and a 236 242 @ .050 .540 lift hyd roller cam. The car made 444 rear wheel hp on pump gas. If you assume a 22% loss to the rear wheels through a turbo 350 and ford nine inch, that is 540 hp at the fly wheel. I beleive the motor is under cammed and woud make more hp with a bigger cam. Although the AFR 210's you are looking are the race ready and not comp package, I think the extra cubic inches along with having a bigger mechanical roller cam will more than make up for the lack of CNC porting. 550hp should be no problem with the AFRs and the components you have.
|05-06-2004 07:42 PM|
|406 ss monte||it's a 406, solid roller cam (253in 265ex @.050" .612 lift) street car. i'm aiming for around 550-575 horsepower or more, & it will be hard to on pump gas i know. i think i can get about 530 horsepower out of it with the dart heads, but i want more. the dart heads just don't seem to have the flow #'s that the afr heads have. i know the afr heads will (should) make more power, but i wonder how much more? every build-up i've seen with afr heads have been bad as hell, even with a 190cc runner they still crank out around 500 horse's.|
|05-06-2004 04:21 PM|
Cstraub, Hit the nail on the head (as usual). The AFR's get so much good press/hype, while they are great heads, they compare their numbers for ported heads to other heads that are not ported. I personally have a set of 215cc Dart Pro 1's and they have served me well. On a N/A 385ci I made about 500hp with them on pump gas (bowl blended, port matched, they really don't need a lot of work). They are now on my blown 388ci and I couldn't be happier.
I know of ported Trick Flows that out flow/perform AFR's for even less money. If you want a head you can buy and bolt on, then the AFR's are not a bad choice.
How much power are you trying to make? What size engine? You may already have more head than you need. If you do decide to off the Dart's let me know, I might be interested.
|05-06-2004 03:54 PM|
I have a set of 220cc brodix 11-x heads that have $1500 in porting in them on top of the initial $1200 for the heads. The heads were professionally ported and polished by HVH. They sent a copy of the final flow figures and I compared them to a set of race ready AFR 220's. At .200-.500 lift, the brodix heads outflow the 70% CNC ported heads by about 10 cfm. Above that the two heads flow the same. I dont think that would equate to a very big difference at the track. I would guess that your heads flow somewhat like the unported 11x heads, and $1500 in port work allowed them to flow just a little better than the AFR 70% CNC ported heads. I dont think $600 would be enough to get your heads to outperform the AFRs. I would buy the AFRs. I dont know about the dart numbers, but I have seen several tests done on AFR heads, and in 90% of the cases the AFR heads flowed exactly what they were advertised to.
|05-06-2004 03:43 PM|
More air to flow in the engine, the more potential power you can make. Comparing an unported set of heads to a CNC set of heads really isn't fair. Both are capable of making power for any street type application.
|05-06-2004 03:30 PM|
|406 ss monte||
dart pro-1's v/s afr 210's
i have a set of dart pro-1 215 cc heads. i found a set of Afr race ready heads. my question is which heads would make the most power, & would it be enough power to justify the cost ($1400) of the afr heads? i would sell the dart heads & get most of the money back, but i would still end up spinning around $600. would $600 buck's worth of porting make the dart heads just as good, or better than the Afr's? does anyone know if dart & Afr's heads flow what they say? or are they both inflated number's ?thanks