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Thread: Echeck, Metal-dust in oil, and burning headers!!! Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-25-2012 12:29 PM
I ended up finding the source of the mystery metal

Many months later I randomly happened to find the cause of all these troubles...the friggin washer just above the cam gear on the HEI! I forget now why I was tearing it down, but I pulled the lower gear from the HEI and found that the washer was a very small and jagged shell of its former self. Didn't really cross my mind until I tore down a different HEI and saw just how big that wash was SUPPOSED to be! Somehow that damn thing got sheared off and cycled through the engine, trashing every bearing along the way.

I spent SO MUCH time and effort and money to make sure I did things the right way to avoid failure, and THAT simple little thing is what trashed my motor.
09-05-2005 06:30 PM
bamfasm first a hot tank or a pressure wash tank does not clean a block good enough for assembly. and if you dont have the proper tools for assembly (oil passage brush). then engine building should be done by the pro with the proper tools for cleaning which will be less costly.
09-05-2005 04:23 PM
Jmark Well, I don't have any 3 foot long gallery cleaners nor do I have a hot tank or pressure vat. Drinking from a dusty glass doesn't cost $2000+ compared to an engine going south from crappy machine work.
Ask TurboS10 about the post machining cleanout that the machine shop did NOT do. It cost him major bucks to make it right.

09-05-2005 02:49 PM
bamfasm and we all know when you buy dishs and silverware that we just pull them out of the box and eat off of them right then without washing them. so why couldnt we take an engine block home , set it in the corner until morning,then put it on an engine stand, let it set there another week ,then put it together and expect it to be clean,AND if it is nasty and our engine gets destroyed, lets call the machine shop and let the guys there laugh at us.then lets pour us a glass of milk in our new glass that we just bought without washing it and hope we dont get hepatitus. THE END.
09-04-2005 05:41 PM
Jmark All bearings are chewed, but none look like they are gouged enough to make a big shaving like that...

That most likely is from, as stated many times before, metal crap from machining in the oil passages that was not properly cleaned out.

As far as the cleaning NOT being the responsibility of the machine shop IF they are not putting it together, I completely DISSAGREE! The block should be spotless inside and out no matter who is putting it together. If there is crap in the passages and the engine is trashed, i'd be going after the shop big time. There is just no excuse for crappy work.

09-04-2005 04:59 PM
TurboS10 All the oil pump will do is rob a little power if it is HV. Sounds like you got the same treatment I got with my engine. I made the mistake of trusting the machinist when he said it was ready to assemble. He had left a large amount of crap in the oil galleys and it killed my bearings. Lesson learned!
09-01-2005 05:29 PM
IROC_385z I understand. I do not believe that he tanked the block after the machine work. Though I did power-wash it before assembly I can see how that would not get metal out of the oil galleys.

Note that the engine didn't always have such low pressure at idle, that developed after a short while. Initially I would have 45 at idle and 70+ while running.

About that oil pump theory: Nobody has commented about it yet. Assuming that 6500 is the max this motor will rev, should I stick to a stock pump or reuse the HV?
09-01-2005 03:25 PM
bamfasm if the machine shop isnt putting your engine together ,the machine shop is not responsible for YOUR final cleaning before assembly.
09-01-2005 03:07 PM
trees IROC, go back and review my post on page two of this thread. I believe you found what I told you was the problem : worn out bearings. How can bearings get worn out in 1500 miles? There was machine grit left in the motor after the recent machine work. It was left there because the shop did not revat the motor after the work and you probably did not clean all the oil galleys and passages adequately. I have had some bearings scored beyond limits during cam break in, after 1500 miles and high as 6000 miles, all because the grit was not adequately cleaned out. Obviously, we don't use the machine shop any more and we do a thorough cleaning before assembly that we did not have to do when the machine shops had better and more reliable help.
09-01-2005 01:55 PM
bottom end

Sounds like the bottom end was never assembled properly in the first place. On a fresh engine you should have more than 10 lbs of oil pressure at idle period. I have seen a lot of rebuilds and have never seen glittery oil. I think you are fortunate that you decided to take it apart before you locked it up and threw a rod through the block. You should concider bringing it to a professional, have everything checked, repaired and re-assembled. Engine building is not an amature sport. You need a clean organized area to do the assembly work and a trained experienced eye to watch for potential problems.
Good luck with it
09-01-2005 01:09 PM
IROC_385z Anybody have an opinion about the oil pump thing?
08-27-2005 09:03 PM
IROC_385z Hey guys! I was too discouraged to jump right in, but my girlfriend and I (you heard that right) finally took apart the engine the other day and I still have no clue where that shaving came from.

The cylinder walls are not chewed up, though I can see some up/down marks one a couple cylinders, nothing that would produce that metal. All spirolox are in place so it isn't one of them. The camshaft is fine. All bearings are chewed, but none look like they are gouged enough to make a big shaving like that...*shrugs*

I also noticed that the top inch-or-so of each cylinder shows a differant wear-pattern than the bottom part of the cylinder. Could this be from piston-rock since they are forged?

The only thing I wonder that could have caused the chewed bearngs is: I have the hi-volume/hi-pressure oil pump. The first cam I had in the motor let me rev to 7k+, which I did a few times. Now using the stock size pan, do you suppose that I sucked the pan dry and that is what caused it? I have read much argueing about if it is possible to suck the pan dry with such a pump...but at this point it is all I could imagine causing this?

What do you guys think?
07-29-2005 03:57 PM
tater salad that is bearing material -when it spins or locks to the crank the sharp edges of the block or rod jourals cut it off like a lathe
07-29-2005 10:25 AM
IROC_385z I'm kinda worried about that too. <i>Where</i> is the other half of the retainer!! I can't wait to see what ate it up *hopes that the crank/bearings are all ok*

I have concluded that my camaro is Pandora, and the engine its' box...
07-28-2005 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by IROC_385z
The lifters are rollers so I don't think (sure hope) that it isn't from one of them.

The only thing that I could imagine that it is would be a spirolox; maybe one of them popped out? What troubles me is: what chewed it up so badly (it is half-missing) and what damage did it do elsewhere in the engine?

Saturday I will tear it down to inspect everything. I sure hope it IS a wrist-pin retainer because if not then...I don't know...
Ouch....that does look like the remains of a spriolock. Hope that one did not come loose. It will have ruined the cylinder wall for sure. Keep us posted.

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