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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-13-2007 01:36 PM
jvsutton Here's a video of that dude on the mono wheel wiping out!

well embedding it didn't work heres a link maybe it'll work.
03-11-2007 12:39 PM
red65mustang mickey,
there is only one lower control arm for suspension, see attached pic......

to get a "normal wheel" car body to that low of a center of gravity would take a 6"? dropped axle

this site is his eng design "concept" site (2004 engineering awards winner).....not a working prototype
03-11-2007 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by red65mustang
mikey....look's a "tilt steer" set up....arms connected to a pivot to tilt both the same....its a 2 front wheels motorcycle

later...we're fillin' everybodies inbox
I set my email notification to "off" a long time ago.

I saw that with the camber adjusting suspension/ leaning body. That has been around on 3 wheelers since the 70's or 80's. There used to be a guy selling a 3 wheeler kit that you'd bolt on the front of a honda 750.

the osmos co claims to lower the center of gravity on a vehicle with their wheel by using 1 lower control arm.

That was the contradiction I was referring to.

Later, mikey
03-11-2007 11:24 AM
red65mustang mikey....look's a "tilt steer" set up....arms connected to a pivot to tilt both the same....its a 2 front wheels motorcycle

later...we're fillin' everybodies inbox
03-11-2007 10:42 AM
powerrodsmike Now I'm seeing some advantage.
I guess if you made a wheel that was also the motor, with the proper controls you'd be able to not only control stopping and going, but you could eliminate the load on the bearings as well by putting more current to the bottom coils, just like the Maglev.

So this may make using this wheel with a combustion motor impractical, suited only for the looky factor, but electric power is already suited to it. Kewl.

It is interesting to note that in the Aprilla video, the front suspension has upper and lower A arms, which contradicts one of the "advantages" that the Osmos co claims to have with using it's design.

Later, mikey
03-11-2007 10:21 AM
red65mustang mickey, here's a link towards the more practical....basic hybrid example

a hubless wheel electric motor is a "linear" motor (like a "mag lev" motor on a train)......alot of power for very little mass..... and you eliminated all the drive train totally to reduce unsprung weight...hubless electric with a 15HP generator would be very light even if you drove all 4 wheels for best acceleration/passing....max mpg= drive only one wheel cruising, the "inertia" works for you to maintain speed (4 big flywheels) and can be most of the brakes required

I look at it as an idea just waiting to happen....."wheels" are on everything

one of Time Magazines "inventions of the year" was 2 hubless wheels on a gas powered skate board last year(?)
03-11-2007 09:10 AM
tfeverfred Thanks for finding that. It seems like they have flaws still, but it's always good to see guys thinking and doing. Who knows, if they get the weight and cost down a little and figure out a way for the moving parts to not get contaminated, it might catch on. Perhaps in 10 years every home will have on. Or at least the one weird guy on every street (aka Hot Rodder?).
03-11-2007 08:58 AM
powerrodsmike Red65, Those are good points, but it still seems to me that the real mechanical advantages are few, and the technology has to be adapted to accomodate the styling.

The fact that the idea has been floating around for quite some time, and that no one has picked upon it except for those primarily interested in it's style, lead me to believe that there are no real advantages to using this technology.

I went looking for the BMW concept car you referred to, but only found a 3 wheeler that had regular wheels, and the picture on the osmos website.
Is there someplace that has some real info about this car, and says that they are using the hubless wheel because of it's mechanical advantages? I saw that Toyota has put it on one of it's concept cars as well.

I found a website about the Apache concept bike that osmos talks about also.
Not a whole lot out there about that one, either.

The wheel as an armature is interesting, but any time you put the propulsion at the wheel you add to the unspring weight. Putting weight towards the outside of the wheel adds to rotating mass, harder to speed up, and harder to stop.

I think that when the guy wrote about the bearings being "in the muck" , I think he was refering to the fact that they were exposed to all the things that a wheel can pick up and sling around inside it's rim. A traditional center bearing wheel is able to be sealed alot easier, and the bearing speeds are not anywhere near the ones that the osmos wheel has to put up with.
What do those bearings ride on, anyway? Is the inner rim hardened or are they on a hardened ring?

I wonder what happens when the guy with the SB chevy powered monowheel gets on the brakes really hard?

I started another thread with a couple more monowheel vehicles. One of them, (the vehicle), is pretty funny.

Later, mikey
03-11-2007 07:39 AM
red65mustang pic' attached is from mickey's mono wheel link .....scroll about 3/4 down....there is a video link= the Hot Rod magazine pic?

tfeverfred, all these "mono's" are using a heavy fly wheel so as long as the motor is running, there is enough gyroscopic effect to be pretty stable with such a low center of gravity

twisted, I do have a bad case of CRS....thanks for correcting my mis-information

mikey, all I was trying to say is that most of the "engineering flaws" sited are silly......ex:
"in the muck"...duh, move the mount point so the chassis is suspended at the wheel centerline...look at the rear mount location on the choppers...Amen "should have" used shorter front forks for practicality

counterpoint?: BMW didn't spend "mega marks" to be ridiculed in public for bad engineering with their concept car
side note?: use it as an armature=ultimate "hybrid?" is easiest to apply as a electric motor
03-10-2007 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Twisted Minis
Hate to tell you, but this is old news. Billy Lane has now built 3 "hubless" bikes. Amen Choppers also built one, and its been done on a car now that was at Sema last year. I actually started building one myself, and have the wheel finished with no drive system. Expensive bearings.

But saying that its hubless is actual not true. Its really a very large hub with a large, hollow axle.

Billy is done with his 5th.

Didn't Billy Lane build the Psycho Billy bike in 02?

The original patent is held by Franco Sbarro, patented 9-28-93, after he debuted the idea at a car show in France in 1989.

So it was old news when Billy picked it up too.
I wonder how he is working around or with the patent?

Here is a link I found to some things called "monowheels".

It doesn't take alot of imagination to see that this really not a new idea at all. Scroll down a while to see more than a couple of examples of hubless wheels. They are big, but the idea is the same. Down towards the bottom is the mccean mono wheel, which I'll bet is the one tfever fred is talking about.

Later, mikey
03-10-2007 07:32 PM
Twisted Minis
Originally Posted by red65mustang
been out for 5 years?

Amen's chopper pic attached

billy Lane got around the patent by driving the tire tread (rubber drive roller against the tread as a clutch)
Uhh, the Amen bike used a drive system like that. But Billys bikes were chain driven.
03-10-2007 05:12 PM
tfeverfred There's a guy in this months issue of Hot Rod that has a wheel you ride inside of. It uses a car engine and basically all it is good for is being oddball. It is VERY unstable. I don't have the issue in front of me, but he is trying to sell them I believe.
03-10-2007 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by red65mustang
how it is best applied as a drive wheel is driving the rim itself (new thinking required)

you can buy a gas motor driven single hubless wheel vehicle......motor and seat are located in the empty center of the (?) 5' diameter hubless an example....made in Norway?....was on Beyond Tomorrow/Science channel
I saw that, Southpark did a lame parody of that "vehicle".

Not really fit for this site, so I'll post the link to a picture of that southpark "wheel".
Warning: typically disturbing southpark cartoon, but it was shown on primetime TV so you can make your own mind up..

I heard that the rim could be like an armature, while the drive was accomplished with electromagnets, (like a giant hubless electric motor), but what is the real advantage to creating a drive to accomodate the novelty of a hubless wheel?

Later, mikey
03-10-2007 04:58 PM
powerrodsmike I found a website that showed the first Billy Lane bike with a chain drive, it looked like a double roller.

It seems as though the only people who want to use this technology are ones who want it for it's looks. I found several motorcyle forums that once the thread about hubless wheels was posted, the questions about making their own hubless wheeled choppers, mini choppers and bicycles started. No one seemed interested in them as practical alternatives to a traditional wheel.

I found one site that a fellow actually said a few things about the engineering that I would concur with.

Whilst they look pretty - very striking actually - they suffer from the slight draw back that they fail in every engineering principle you can apply to a wheel.

The rollerbearing and seal speeds are almost as high as the road speed.
The brg & seals are "in the muck".
The wheel is no longer a entire "structure" - relying on the bearings to prevent distortion.
rotating interia is much higher - bearing / seals / drive being almost at tyre diameter.
very small amount of damage results in a jammed wheel.
I think the Osmos wheel co is trying to make a fortune by hyping this wheel up. It is a marketing endeavor to be the first ones to sell this novelty. Nothing more.

If you do a search for hubless wheel or hubless race bike you will find many references to how the company has been contacted about getting info about using the wheel on projects, and they don't reply at all. I believe is because they want to control every aspect of it's marketing.

A few years ago there was a discovery channel show about the original inventor, Franco Sbarro, showing off his invention , and it was equally hyped up. I watched it and was dissapointed that no test results were shown and no rider testimonials were given. It showed the guy riding the motorcycle around his property. Slowly. It looked like a sales pitch to me.

Later, mikey
03-10-2007 04:43 PM
red65mustang mikey,
how it is best applied as a drive wheel is driving the rim itself (new thinking required)

you can buy a gas motor driven single hubless wheel vehicle......motor and seat are located in the empty center of the (?) 5' diameter hubless an example....made in Norway?....was on Beyond Tomorrow/Science channel
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