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Topic Review (Newest First)
06-20-2008 08:36 AM
oldred As has already been discussed at length in the other thread everyone is blaming the oil companies (yes they ARE guilty but not of causing the problem), politicians (they partially share the guilt also for price gouging), and even the President but the real problem is in our driveways! Fellas think about it, thirty five years ago there was only a fraction of the traffic on our roads as there is today, twenty five years ago it was still a lot lighter than now and even ten years ago it was noticeably less than today in a lot of places, and look at how much of this growth is gas guzzling 4X4s and SUVs. The point being it has reached the point where something has to give, the number of vehicles on the road is growing at an explosive rate and it HAS to stop, something MUST CHANGE! We can not just keep on building more and bigger roads to support all these new vehicles because even though price gouging is a fact it is also a fact that at this rate of vehicle growth the oil supply WILL run out for real before long. Look at all the traffic on the highways, at any intersection and in mall parking lots and then think how many times that is multiplied all across the country! What is it going to be like in ten more years if we keep on as doing as we are now? Now add to that the explosive growth rate in traffic in countries such as Chine and India and ask WHERE THE HELL IS THAT OIL SUPPOSED TO COME FROM? Oil shortage right now? Probably not as bad as the oil companies would have you believe but unless we change our way of thinking it will be very real before long at all. Drill for more oil here? You bet and the sooner the better BUT this must be done along with a massive conservation program to help wean us off this massive wasting of oil like we are doing today otherwise we are headed for disaster. All that oil we could drill for will not last forever even at todays usage rates and if we tried to use all domestic oil and continue the growth rate of traffic as it is today that supply would not last long at all. Depending on foreign oil is like playing Russian roulette since it could disappear at any time and our economy would fall into shambles but what will it be like if we continue on as we are? There is an answer, CONSERVE what we have and definitely drill for the oil we have but don't waste it! All those big 3 ton sleds on the roads hauling one or two people to the grocery store or that big 4x4 hauling one person to work on dry pavement is the real problem whether we will admit it or not. The oil companies are guilty of price gouging that is for sure but they are only taking advantage of the situation they are not causing it, we are by buying every drop of gas they produce at whatever price they ask! "But we have to buy it" is the usual response when someone is told that, well that's true but we do NOT have to buy as much as we do! We are not FORCED to drive a 3 ton 12 MPG vehicle and just changing what we drive would take us off our foreign oil dependency without drilling for another drop of new oil for many years. Unfortunately higher prices is the only thing that will make most people take notice and is the only thing that is going to help stop this enormous waste of our oil supply and cheaper prices would only make it worse. If prices are forced down through political means then we would just continue to buy those big gas guzzlers and waste our oil at an ever increasing rate until the supply, for real, could no longer sustain the demand and then we would be in deep trouble. If you think fuel is a problem now just wait until the shortage is real and we have even more cars on the road!
06-20-2008 07:14 AM
pepi Hay some of the folks here are all over it, reading some good stuff here, well said, glad to read the comments.

gearhead81,

I am with you about driving and enjoying the hotrod. My car will only run right on high test, no problem I fill it and go out and not think twice about the price. The cell is 22 gal and I add the 104 octane boost so if someone is into numbers you can see I pay a bit more to enjoy the ride.

It is worth it to me and puts a big fat smile on my puss, as the car shakes waiting for the green, they really roar with good hot fuel. But as any other right minded person knows 5 bucks is annoying and makes the case for some new oil rigs.

I am the pennzoil man at hart, referring to the commercial with the guys heart pumping as he rides down the road... forget music the power plant plays the tune I like to here as I challenge the highway.
06-20-2008 01:57 AM
j.d.brown.042964 Heard some real interesting discussion on this same issue recently {about 1-2 weeks ago} on the "Rick and Bubba" syndicated radio show. One VERY INTERESTING point mentioned was the profits/cost-ratio on the production side versus the refining side. Seems many domestic oilfields have been mothballed for years until crude oil market prices surpassed the production costs to bring said crude to market,and now that the market prices have gotten so high-many of these same oil companies will sell themselves oil that cost $25-45/barrel to produce, at the present market pricing of what foreign produced oil is at $120-140/barrel-THUS GUARANTEEING THEMSELVES A HUGE PROFIT on at least a portion of one side of the equation. Thus the low profit margins said oil companies are stating on the "refining side" cannot really be looked at as anything but smoke and mirrors. Costs of producing from a field developed 20-30 years ago (but then mothballed) were a "planned amount" that could, in some cases, be MUCH lower than costs to produce from more recently developed fields. So when the oil companies are telling you their reasons for high fuel prices being so much tied to present day crudeoil market prices, this is not necessarily the whole truth. Good chance that perhaps 30-40% or more of their crude obtained for refining was obtained from themselves after already making a hefty markup on reselling to themselves. I guess we gotta pay their executive multi-million dollar bonus somehow! {Having made several trips from n/central Alabama to n/e Illinois over the last 4 years, I can tell you I see a lot more of the pump rigs running in Southern Illinois recently than I had on previous trips 12-24 months ago}. Might be possible to look it up on their website www.rickandbubba.com . For those unfamiliar, they're some very entertaining,but yet very informed "good ole boys" down here in dixie, whom have national syndication on many radio stations. (PS;I mean REAL radio,not sattellite)
06-19-2008 11:23 PM
BORTI
corporations

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepi
We the USA are a free market economy , the evil corporations that you wish to demonize are the very people that bring the goods, invest in discovery and innovation, and as a side line provide JOBs to the great unwashed. I like big corporations because they are responsible for the great lives we live in the good old USA. If it where not for the big corporations you would not have the car you love to build. Where do you think you would be buying parts for you hobby, Joe's junk yard?

Blaming the big corporations as an evil is nothing more then a worn out statement that has NO truth to it. There are more good corporations in the USA then not. You need to quit watching TV and regurgitating their phony philosophy.

The government can not do a good job, they just acerbate any problems and seem to solve nothing.

Give me the free market any day and all day, hope I did not hurt your feelings. But we need to drop the bumper sticker conversations and actually consider the facts and solve the problems at hand.

Am I to serious here ?........................ guilty, but we really need to wake up in this country.

Quote: if they had real jobs, with realistic salaries, they would be singing a different tune.

We keep putting them back into office so who really is to blame here? These brainless people are not annotated and can be removed, so what is up America?
AMEN!!!! As of 2006 we import 60% of our oil.Drilling here is the solution period.And making alternative fuels more accessable.
06-19-2008 09:36 PM
fatboyman05 let's see, the oil corporations make just under 9 cents on the dollar (9%)
the government collects between 46 and 68 cents per gallon of gas (federal, state and local). Thats 11.5 cents minimum at 4 bucks a gallon.


there is talk by the government of a "windfall profits tax" that would be charged on the oil company profits (the 9 cents), and if that were to happen, it will get passed onto the consumer.


as for the "speculators", what is being talked about is the commidities futures markets. This is essentially betting on what a future price will be, wether it's Oil, corn, soybeans, wheat.... the money in questions comes from hedge funds and large corporations that use the market to even out material costs. Southwest a year and two ago was buying oil futures at 110 to 120 a barrel. this allowed them to offset the rising cost of jet fuel which saved their clients while helping them make a profit.

current land leases to oil corporations equal only 6% of land in the US and 8% of land in the oceans owned / controlled by the government. of them, manny are just not long enough of a term to allow the corpoations to re-coup the monies to explore and drill for the oil.....


Corn prices today and the futures prices are rising, in part to a government mandate of corn to be used to produce ethanol... and farmers in this great free market economy have been switchin some of their crops from soybeans to corn resulting in rising soybean prices....

with all that said, I believe that we need to explore all alternative options while pursuing getting it from offshore and shale

meanwhile I'm still looking for a daily driver from the 80's and havent decided on a model but I am checking the gas EPA estimates on my potentials....
06-19-2008 05:52 PM
gearhead81 you know, my car is too fun to drive to leave parked. I don't like the gas prices, but goddammit, i'm gonna pay them, with a smile on my face. I built my car to go fast and I knew going into it that I was going to be spending a LOT of time at the gas station. so **** it. if the prices go down, it will be a relief to my wallet. if they go up, I might sell my car to some rich **** that can afford to put fuel in her, and pay me to fix her when he drives 10000 miles without ever peeking under the hood.

That's how I feel.
06-19-2008 04:48 PM
weirdbeard To many people on this earth. Its as simple as that. Stop whining and Stop reproducing. How dare I!
06-19-2008 04:23 PM
coldknock
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearhead81
What can we actually do?
Live as poorly as you possibly can and stay alive. The government and the corporations require us to toil and labor endlessly. Without our labor the balance of power will shift toward us, the unwashed laboring masses. The redistribution of wealth will begin. I can't see any other way for it to happen.

The American dream has become a tool used to make the tea-sippers our masters. It's worked pretty well so far.



Larry
06-19-2008 01:23 PM
gearhead81
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepi

Quote: if they had real jobs, with realistic salaries, they would be singing a different tune.

We keep putting them back into office so who really is to blame here? These brainless people are not annotated and can be removed, so what is up America?
You are absolutely right. but, on the other hand, some would say that they will get into office whether we put them there or not. And we can't boycott voting.
It's like voting for the giant ****** or the turd sandwich(Southpark, lol).


What can we actually do?
06-19-2008 01:10 PM
poncho62 So...What you are saying, it is not the corporations, but the government screwing us?

And, those corporations don't control the doings of that government, through political donations etc?

Yeah right.............

Take it any way you like, big business making a profit is fine, but when they are making mega dollars profit at the expense of the little guy (us)....that is wrong. Prices have doubled and tripled over the last few years, so have their profits......wages have not.

Banking and insurance are two more examples...................
06-19-2008 12:35 PM
pepi
Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
The only thing driving up the prices is corporate and government greed........

No matter what we do, we are going to pay for it......Not saying not to do anything, but until we take back our countries, we are over a barrel........a pricey barrel (of oil)

We the USA are a free market economy , the evil corporations that you wish to demonize are the very people that bring the goods, invest in discovery and innovation, and as a side line provide JOBs to the great unwashed. I like big corporations because they are responsible for the great lives we live in the good old USA. If it where not for the big corporations you would not have the car you love to build. Where do you think you would be buying parts for you hobby, Joe's junk yard?

Blaming the big corporations as an evil is nothing more then a worn out statement that has NO truth to it. There are more good corporations in the USA then not. You need to quit watching TV and regurgitating their phony philosophy.

The government can not do a good job, they just acerbate any problems and seem to solve nothing.

Give me the free market any day and all day, hope I did not hurt your feelings. But we need to drop the bumper sticker conversations and actually consider the facts and solve the problems at hand.

Am I to serious here ?........................ guilty, but we really need to wake up in this country.

Quote: if they had real jobs, with realistic salaries, they would be singing a different tune.

We keep putting them back into office so who really is to blame here? These brainless people are not annotated and can be removed, so what is up America?
06-19-2008 10:54 AM
gearhead81
Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
The only thing driving up the prices is corporate and government greed........
True. And they probably don't even notice the price of fuel, so naturally they don't care. if they had real jobs, with realistic salaries, they would be singing a different tune.
06-19-2008 10:41 AM
poncho62 The only thing driving up the prices is corporate and government greed........

No matter what we do, we are going to pay for it......Not saying not to do anything, but until we take back our countries, we are over a barrel........a pricey barrel (of oil)
06-19-2008 10:24 AM
gearhead81 Isn't the lack of refineries part of what's driving the cost up?
06-19-2008 10:18 AM
MAUSS Increasing the supply of oil _should_ drive the price down, but the real issue is how oil (and other commodities) is traded. The speculators are the ones that have driven the price up... not a shortage at all. The rules of supply and demand don't always apply in situations like this. The price of oil goes up on the mere rumor of the price going up.
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