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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-12-2008 04:55 PM
youngblood85
now the fun starts

so now that i've gotten the donor motor and trans for my truck, all that i have to do is get them running correctly. im gonna start getting the truck ready to pull the motor out. i just bought my first engine hoist and stand(though i had to let my wife go out spend some money as well, in order to get my toys) and i can't wait to use them! i'll try to get some pictures of the vehicles posted soon.
10-11-2008 02:00 PM
youngblood85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Keller
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ormer-sb.shtml

You can put a carb on a early TBI motor with one of these intakes.

Finesse with a Hammer & screwdriver?

Them columns go for up to $250!

Does the BURB have Tailgate or barn yard doors?
what color is the interior?






R
thanks for the link rob, you answered my question. (granted, i'll have tons of them in the future, im sure of it!)
well, i have another, brand new column in the back of the BURB that came with it. as for the one that i took the hammer to, it was already messed up from someone trying to steal it and failing, so i just made it easier to get to the "starter rod" (not sure what its really called).
the interior is the dark blue, and it has a tailgate. i'll try to post some pics tonight of my projects. (how do i do that?)
the BURB is very clean for its year. i was surprised to find that the windows all work, the motors are sluggish, but they work! is anyone wanting some parts from it? let me know what you need, and i'll see if its worth using. what doesn't come off it, will go to the junk yard.
ryan
10-11-2008 11:55 AM
Rob Keller http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ormer-sb.shtml

You can put a carb on a early TBI motor with one of these intakes.

Finesse with a Hammer & screwdriver?

Them columns go for up to $250!

Does the BURB have Tailgate or barn yard doors?
what color is the interior?




R
10-11-2008 08:57 AM
youngblood85
rough ride home!

well, it took some "finess" with a hammer and screwdriver to get the keyless ignition to turn over. to my surprise, the old beast came to life after almost a year and a half of sitting dormant, and on the second try! the 87 suburban is far from well running, but it did make it the 6-7 miles back to my house under its own power, and died right as i was turning into my driveway! so now starts the process of getting to the heart running good, before i rip it out and bring life to my baby once again. whats left of the burban (rear end, tires, gas tank, bench seat, and whatever else i can salvage) will go into my garage, along with the vette 350 and 400 trans, for a rat rod build later on.

so after long thought, i've decided to just turn the tbi 350 into one that is carburerated, as it will work out easier, and i can get old blue back on the road faster. now comes the task of finding out what intake i need and what sensors i can take off and make it still run right. anyone know of some books i could buy to help me out, or what needs to come off? and i do appreciate all of your advice so far, it has helped me out tremendously thus far.
thanks
ryan
10-10-2008 09:26 PM
Soul_Hunter i'll cover some of what has already been said & then add to it, for me its the easiest way. so this will be a little long, sorry.

carburetors and TBI each have their own advantages.
with a carb there are few wires to mess with & most people feel they are easier to repair when there is a problem.
with TBI, you have more wiring, some sensors & the ECM to contend with.
but with TBI working right, most people get better fuel mileage & overall better driveability.

to go back with a carburetor on the TBI motor would be easy. you would just need to get an intake to fit the heads or modify your old intake.

like has been said, to put TBI on your 84 you need the TBI unit, distributor, ECM, harness, knock module, & all the sensors.
you'll need a vehicle speed sensor (VSS) of some kind, but thats not too bad of a problem.
you'll need the fuel pump, i believe the sending unit from the 87 suburban will fit right into your current tank, but i could be wrong.
you'll need to run at least 1 extra fuel line for the fuel return.
if you don't run a new metal line for the pressure side, you will also need to change all the rubber hose on your factory supply line to rubber hose rated to handle higher
pressures and make sure you use good screw type hose clamps. some stock TBI fuel pumps can produce up around 25 PSI dead head. TBI needs around 13 PSI to run right.

if your good with wiring, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to get it wired up, just time consuming.
you will need a good book that covers the system you have.
for the check engine light, you can add a light or you can use one of the used lights in your instrument cluster.
you'll need to learn how to trouble shoot & repair it when you have a problem.

GM used the 700R4 till around 91 or so, & then it was called the 4L60.
both only have the torque converter clutch or TCC controlled by the ECM.
you can still use the 700R4 or the 4L60 without a computer, you can get a kit to control the TCC.
i believe it was 93 when GM started using the 4L60E, which must have a computer to control it.
it depends on which 350 transmission you have if you'll need to cut the drive shaft or not.
you may also need to make some minor mods to the trans cross member.

the 87 motor you have was called a Vortec, but don't confuse it with the later model 96~02 5.7 Vortecs.
in 87 on the TBI motors GM used swirl port heads. they aren't the best for all out performance, but they do help out with torque. with the right cam those heads work really well in a pickup.
10-10-2008 05:24 PM
Rob Keller Well its not work if you like doing this stuff.

But It down right sux if you need it ASAP.

Either way I would say installing the TBI would be harder.

Here is what I did.

I put a SB carbed400 in place of a TBI 454 .
The motor came out of a 1980 C~30 Camper
I used the Motor Wiring Harness except for 1 connection it bolts right in .
so you will have to check to make sure all the wires correspond the same.

Fortunately the Computer thing was sort of a after thought on GM's part

Most of all the TBI stuff goes in or out of that big hole on the Passenger side of the fire wall.



I removed the ECM & all the wires going to it..

Lets see...

You will need to drop the fuel tanks Remove the fuel pumps & extend the pick up tubes. & disconnect the power going to the fuel pumps.



I can not think of anything else right now but I am sure I missed something. I am going to flip thru the couple thousands pixs I took during the job




R
10-10-2008 03:50 PM
youngblood85
hmmm...

Ok, so if i decide to do the swap, im in for alot of work... now if i decided to make the tbi motor a carbureted motor (if possible) what would i have to do then?
10-10-2008 03:21 PM
Rob Keller To go from carbed to TBI is pain full. but it can be done

1st off the trans is not a 700R4 if its TBI most likely a 4L60E

I am not sure how to tell them apart but the 700R4 does not need a puter the 4L60E does.

Ok even though you are in small block land there are some differences.

You will need to know this stuff:

If the items are stock

The 84 will have the old style valve covers 4 bolts on the side
The 87 will have the 4 bolts on top this is the 1st generation of the vortex's.

The diff between the 84 & 87 also is the intake bolts the 84 is old style & go in on a angle thru the intake into the heads.
The TBI {Throttle Body Injection} intake bolts go in straight {90*} into the heads*.

*side note; some people will ream out the holes on a carbed intake to fit the Vortec.

To use the TBI you will need to install the ECM{Electronic Control Module} & the wiring harness that goes with it map sensors O2 sensors & all that jazz.

Now there are all kinds if aftermarket variations for both of these .

And most important I do not know them .

Well this it the Information that has freely flowed out of my old decrepit brain box @ the moment.

Hopefully some people with more knowledge will chime in & fill in the blanks I left open.



Rob
10-10-2008 03:20 PM
joe_padavano
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngblood85
i was having trouble with the starter on my 84 3/4 ton chevy's 350. after much frustration and asking around, turns out that i messed thy fly wheel up by not shimming it soon enough after i knew it was having problems. oh well, you live and learn...
i found out about an 87 1/2 ton suburban with a 350/700r4 combo, for only $200! i bought it yesterday and have to go see if i can get it running today, its been sitting for a year or so. i'll get it home one way or the other.
i want to know what its gonna take to get my 350/400 turbo out of my truck and put the 350/700r4 from the suburban back in. i would just swap the tranny's out, if i didn't have a 4 bolt main that i wanted for a hot rod, in my truck.
enough rambling, whats it gonna take to put the 350 with a throttle body into a carb truck? or maybe change the throttle body to a carb motor? then what will i have to do to make the overdrive on the trans work? any advice would help.
thanks
ryan
You need the computer, harness, all the sensors, and the electric in-tank fuel pumps, at a minimum. Understanding problems with the TBI system also requires the Check Engine light and the ALDL connector, so you will likely need to swap the gauge cluster and dash harness also. This swap is not impossible, but start by getting the Chassis Service Manual and Wiring Diagrams for the 87 truck.
10-10-2008 02:55 PM
Henry Highrise I think you are probably going to have to have the computer and wireing harness from the donor truck to get all that to work in your truck.
10-10-2008 11:01 AM
youngblood85
first engine swap, help!

i was having trouble with the starter on my 84 3/4 ton chevy's 350. after much frustration and asking around, turns out that i messed thy fly wheel up by not shimming it soon enough after i knew it was having problems. oh well, you live and learn...
i found out about an 87 1/2 ton suburban with a 350/700r4 combo, for only $200! i bought it yesterday and have to go see if i can get it running today, its been sitting for a year or so. i'll get it home one way or the other.
i want to know what its gonna take to get my 350/400 turbo out of my truck and put the 350/700r4 from the suburban back in. i would just swap the tranny's out, if i didn't have a 4 bolt main that i wanted for a hot rod, in my truck.
enough rambling, whats it gonna take to put the 350 with a throttle body into a carb truck? or maybe change the throttle body to a carb motor? then what will i have to do to make the overdrive on the trans work? any advice would help.
thanks
ryan

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