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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-11-2009 04:29 PM
RamAirZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Yes, I agree the numbers are within reach w/what cam and carb/intake you already have- provided you use some small tube headers. It'll take tuning it real crisp- carb and ignition advance. But I think you should be able to get .8-.9 HP/CID w/o too much trouble.

If the engine is tight, I don't think I'd even bother w/changing the stock heads that are on it now, for that matter- at least not for now. This will hurt peak power, but the bottom end should still be good. The 416's will help almost everywhere as compared to the PP's or stock heads, but will obviously add to the cost.

Anyway, down the road, you can decide exactly how (or if) to go about modding the 307. Using it as-is (or close to that) for now makes sense on several levels- budget, the 307's in good shape to start with, and you have the parts to help it already.
Well I don't have the stock 307 heads lol, the power packs are already on the car. That's why I was debating if I should still go 416's, as the car is running/driving great right now with the PP heads, thinking cam/intake/carb upgrade and change the springs. The seals on there seem good too as no leaks/burning oil. The valve cover gaskets are the newer composite style so I'm thinking someone has changed this stuff recently.
07-11-2009 12:45 PM
ap72 If you're just wanting a stockish build then go with the 416's. Get them cleaned up, a good valves job, and even the stock valves will be adequate for DD'ing. I would still pop them apart and clean up the bowls some- but I get happy with a grinder (have even done the heads on a few lawn mowers). Cleaning up the bowls will get you more torque than a larger valve size though, going to larger valves can even hurt if you don't clean them up. Don't even worry about the valve guide, just blend the VJ and the SSR in a bit better and you'll pick up some noticable power. If you do that and use stock valves you could be out for a total of about $350 including some new "z28" springs and decent seals- not a bad option.
07-11-2009 12:24 PM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAirZ
at least 330 ft/lbs for a little over 2000rpm (2-4K) and pulled about 270hp. I think it's feasable to get near this power level using mostly stock parts don't ya think? With some minor work. *SNIP* I figured I could hop it up just a little using some parts I already have lying around lol (qjet, aluminum qjet manifold). do think those power numbers are doable.
Yes, I agree the numbers are within reach w/what cam and carb/intake you already have- provided you use some small tube headers. It'll take tuning it real crisp- carb and ignition advance. But I think you should be able to get .8-.9 HP/CID w/o too much trouble.

If the engine is tight, I don't think I'd even bother w/changing the stock heads that are on it now, for that matter- at least not for now. This will hurt peak power, but the bottom end should still be good. The 416's will help almost everywhere as compared to the PP's or stock heads, but will obviously add to the cost.

Anyway, down the road, you can decide exactly how (or if) to go about modding the 307. Using it as-is (or close to that) for now makes sense on several levels- budget, the 307's in good shape to start with, and you have the parts to help it already.

Quote:
I wonder if the 520's are worth anything to someone.
You can put them in the free classifieds on this forum (and others) and see if you get any takers. With the "right" date code, a collector might go a couple hundred for them, but as just PP heads, they don't seem to command a premium.
07-11-2009 11:43 AM
RamAirZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I'm thinking w/a 307 SBC in a 4000 lb. car, pulling another 4000 lbs-plus of car and trailer, a big cam isn't what would be usually called for. A small, short-duration "torque" or "RV"-type cam is what will usually work for towing, then an aftermarket head might serve no useful purpose. Unless the aftermarket head was carefully chosen, it could actually hurt the engine's ability to make as much torque down low as possible because of the valves and ports being too large.

That said, another option would be to go ahead and cam up the 307, add some mild aftermarket heads, and then gear it w/4.56's. Add a 700R4 (or an OD stick tranny) for the OD to bring the final drive ratio back in the area where the engine won't be buzzing on the freeway (ratio would be 3.2:1 in OD with a 4.56:1 rear gear).

But this will require the engine to be spun up good to make its power, obviously. The easiest way to cure all the probs would be a bigger engine to begin with, IMO.

But for a budget deal, I would still opt for the 416's w/stock valves along w/a good 3-angle valve job and headers, over the PP heads and 1.94" valves.
The car has 3.08's right now and gets around REAL good. The X4262H has 218/226 duration. I think it's a little bigger than an "RV" cam but should still make plenty of low-end torque (it's designed for 4x4's). In a simulation on DesktopDyno , it had at least 330 ft/lbs for a little over 2000rpm (2-4K) and pulled about 270hp. I think it's feasable to get near this power level using mostly stock parts don't ya think? With some minor work. The 200hp 307 was rated at 300 ft/lbs of torque originally anyways. I don't see a point in an aftermarket cylinder head for this, like you said it could hurt performance where I want it. The 307 runs good and I see no need to pull it at the time. Down the road it will get something bigger but for now I figured I could hop it up just a little using some parts I already have lying around lol (qjet, aluminum qjet manifold). Running 4.56+ gears isn't something I want to do either, when I redo the rear it will probably get 3.36's. Like you said, budget on this one is low for right now as I have other projects that need much more motor work lol. I wonder if the 520's are worth anything to someone.
07-11-2009 11:28 AM
cobalt327 I'm thinking w/a 307 SBC in a 4000 lb. car, pulling another 4000 lbs-plus of car and trailer, a big cam isn't what would be usually called for. A small, short-duration "torque" or "RV"-type cam is what will usually work for towing, then an aftermarket head might serve no useful purpose. Unless the aftermarket head was carefully chosen, it could actually hurt the engine's ability to make as much torque down low as possible because of the valves and ports being too large.

That said, another option would be to go ahead and cam up the 307, add some mild aftermarket heads, and then gear it w/4.56's. Add a 700R4 (or an OD stick tranny) for the OD to bring the final drive ratio back in the area where the engine won't be buzzing on the freeway (ratio would be 3.2:1 in OD with a 4.56:1 rear gear).

But this will require the engine to be spun up good to make its power, obviously. The easiest way to cure all the probs would be a bigger engine to begin with, IMO.

But for a budget deal, I would still opt for the 416's w/stock valves along w/a good 3-angle valve job and headers, over the PP heads and 1.94" valves.
07-11-2009 11:11 AM
RamAirZ Ya this is in no way going to be a 5K dollar engine lol. I've had those and then some, but this build is for a cruiser that will make decent power and some good low end torque (looking for over 300 ft/lbs). I wouldn't need to tap the heads as I wouldn't be running screw in studs or guideplates or any of that jaz lol. It'll cost me around $200 for a valve job and to put 1.94's in the current PP heads I have. So about $300 if I go 416's (the extra $100 is for the cost of getting the heads). Down the road if I do a big motor build it will probably be a big block, but the 307 runs pretty good now and doesn't leak/burn any oil. The PP heads have 60cc chambers, so not far off from the 416's 58cc. I'm not going to be touching the short block in it, just top end.
07-11-2009 10:30 AM
ap72 I am working on a set of 416's right now, they are pretty decent fo ra factory head, BUT for only a few dollars more you can get a complete set of iron heads from Dart, RHS, Brodix, etc. This will be my last set of factory heads for that reason.

Heads, valves, springs, surfacing, tapping for studs, guideplates, valve job- by the time you're done it'll end up around 5-6 hundred bucks, a set of really nice RHS heads run about $900. It is a $300 difference, but in a $5000 engine where one part can mean a 65hp difference it maybe a good idea to look at that route.

If you just want a small stockish cam with a performer manifold and small headers (a real DD) then 416's would fit the bill nicely though- their reduced chamber size also make it easy to get decent compression with cheap pistons.
07-11-2009 09:57 AM
RamAirZ Here ya go, someone did a photoshop of it 2-toned (like a dark grey) with the dog dish caps and he lowered it too (not going to be doing that lol). Not digging his hockey stripe but I think the 2-tone is kinda cool



Anyone else have suggestions on these heads?
07-11-2009 02:58 AM
RamAirZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Nice sedan.

You might reconsider using the 416's on this deal, along w/1.94" intakes (even the 1.84's would work). The PP heads are way past their prime and have nothing going for them, and quite a bit going against them (valve and port size, combustion chamber, non hardened exhaust seats).

Being a '67, this would be a natural for a stealthy, painted-valve cover BBC. Made up to look like a 396 but take it out to a 496.

Bench seat and column shifter stays. Dog dish/steelies painted body color.

Thanks for the compliment. I've put some work into it since I purchased to get it looking good. It's ran great since I bought it and has some pretty good pick up as well. I figured the PP heads are past their prime but seeing as I would put $100 or so toward a set of 416 heads and rebuild them with 1.94 valves, I was wondering if the 520's would work for what I want and save me the hassle of finding a good set of 416's.

A far as the big block, I have thought about this but keep talking myself out of it (for the moment lol) as this is supposed to be a nice DD?Cruiser when I'm through and try to get decent MPG. i don't see a 496 pulling 15+mpg honestly, as I'm the type that would push it to it's limits lol. I'm def keeping the bench seat as I figure it will be easier down the road when the kids are a little older and they fight for the front seat lol. Keeping the bench means they can BOTH ride up front haha. The column shifter is already deleted and I'm not to wild about putting it back. If I keep it manual I will probably swap in a TKO-500 to help with the fuel mileage (I've been thinking about the M21Y from autogear but hear that it really isn't good for just cruising around town with a 3.08-3.36 gear). I've been thinking about a 700R4 swap as well. Down the road it will probably get a BBC as I think the small block looks just that, small!!! The engine bay is so HUGE!!!! As far as the dog dish steelies, you read my mind My wife wants me to paint it all black lol. I'm thinking about it, also thinking 2-tone black up top with Capri-Cream on bottom or sunset orange on bottom.
07-11-2009 02:22 AM
cobalt327
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAirZ
I'm trying to build this car to be a nice cruiser, make some decent power and end up towing a 68' Camaro 302 project down the road. I'm always one that dares to be different so I would like to keep this engine.
Nice sedan.

You might reconsider using the 416's on this deal, along w/1.94" intakes (even the 1.84's would work). The PP heads are way past their prime and have nothing going for them, and quite a bit going against them (valve and port size, combustion chamber, non hardened exhaust seats).

Being a '67, this would be a natural for a stealthy, painted-valve cover BBC. Made up to look like a 396 but take it out to a 496.

Bench seat and column shifter stays. Dog dish/steelies painted body color.
07-11-2009 01:09 AM
RamAirZ
Hello folks, couple questions on my engine combo. 3884520 heads

Hey guys, I'm new to the site and have a few questions. I aquired a 67' Chevy Biscayne about 2 months ago and since then I have been slowly building it up to be a family cruiser. I'm no stranger to performance SBC's and GM in general (I've had a small block 87' Iroc in the 11's all motor, also swapped LS1/T56 into same vehicle, 69' OHC 250 straight 6 Pontiac tempest turbocharged, 67' Chevy K10 with crate 350 and some goodies, and have worked in Hot Rod shops for years) but have some odd questions. My 67' Biscayne has block code 3970020 which comes out as a 307. So I'm assuming at some point a previous owner swapped this block in to replace the 283 that the previous owner thought was still in it (when for sale it was listed with a 283). The head casting number is 3884520, which I'm gathering is a Powerpack 283 head, and it has the T next to the triangle which some people say they are better than non "t" castings. To be honest I'm not familiar with "old school" go-fast parts. I'm always the hi-tech guy in the shop doing the EFI conversions, motor swaps and forced induction. I'm trying to build this car to be a nice cruiser, make some decent power and end up towing a 68' Camaro 302 project down the road. I'm always one that dares to be different so I would like to keep this engine. Any info on these heads? All the numbers I pulled look to be like this: 3884520 T^-(big triangle lol) 0238-(may be 0288). I was originally planning on going with some 416 305 heads, a comp cams X4262h cam to go with the aluminum q-jet intake and q-jet carb I already have sitting to replace my stock 2bbl setup. I already have an HEI setup and have a dual snorkel air cleaner ready to slap on as well. I'm trying to keep the car simple, somewhat stock looking (minus chrome pieces here and there to make it look pretty lol) and run pretty good. If these powerpack heads will net me some decent HP I'll keep em', I'd probably put some 1.94 intake valves in them anyways. Any info or advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks alot!! Oh, and here's a pic of the car in question, in case you wanted to see it (it has a 3-spd manual at the moment as well)








I'm running 15x10 chrome Rally's out back with 295/50-15's and 15x6's up front with a 215/70-15's up front. I mounted my CD player in the original ash tray slot (the ash tray slot was pretty messed up), mounted some Sunpro gauges in the factory radio slot (I thought sunpro's would match better with my stock cluster) and also mounted a Sunpro tach where the stock shifter used to be on the column (it's now floor shift, previous owner had converted it).

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